4.Nick Stahlke — Direct (Part 1)
139 linesCOURT CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
NICK STAHLKE, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
NICK STAHLKE: Nick Stahlke, Stahlke is spelled, S-t-a-h-l-k-e.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY GAHN:
NICK STAHLKE: I'm a forensic scientist with the State of Wisconsin Crime Laboratory?
NICK STAHLKE: Madison.
NICK STAHLKE: Currently I'm the forensic science training coordinator.
MR. GAHN: And could you tell the jurors a little bit about your formal educational background, please.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I have a bachelor's in science degree and medical technology, with a minor in chemistry.
NICK STAHLKE: As a forensic science training coordinator, I'm responsible for a course that the Crime Lab puts on, which is the evidence -- basic evidence technician course. It -- I also then am responsible for coordinating the instructors, the curriculum, and I critique those particulars, those particular trainers.
I also am responsible for the Field Response Training Program within the State of Wisconsin. I make sure that we have an on call roster to cover the statewide program for -- on a 24 hour basis.
I also examine bloodstains for -- for the interpretation of those stains and I am a team leader with the field response program where we trans -- or we will respond to crime scenes.
MR. GAHN: As to the bloodstain patterns that you said was one of your duties and responsibilities, have you attended any specialized schools dealing with bloodstain pattern analysis?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, it's a requirement that anybody that does any bloodstain pattern analysis has a minimum of 40 years -- 40 hour course. And in 1988, I attended a 40 hour course. I, again, attended a course that was entitled Advance Crime Scene Examination; however, it was also a bloodstain course, or ultimately was a bloodstain course. So, I have attended two 40 hour bloodstain courses.
NICK STAHLKE: Well, I got my first training -- or 40 hour course in '88, so I have had 19 years of experience looking at stains and interpreting those stains.
MR. GAHN: Have you given lectures or taught on subjects related to bloodstain pattern interpretation?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I have.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I have.
NICK STAHLKE: There was a Wisconsin Association of Identification, asked me to present a lecture on that subject and I also had a workshop associated with that lecture. I also gave a -- taught at the North Idaho College, which was a program for incoming or new recruits as far as law enforcement recruits. It was a Criminal Justice Program there in the North Idaho College.
I routinely monitor or -- crime scenes, then, also at the Death Investigation School, which is put on by the Department of Justice's Division of Criminal Investigation.
MR. GAHN: I believe you stated that you had been involved in the interpretation of blood stain patterns for 19 years; is that correct?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes.
MR. GAHN: Have you testified in courts of law in Wisconsin as an expert in interpreting bloodstain patterns?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I have.
NICK STAHLKE: About 10 times.
NICK STAHLKE: No, I have not.
MR. GAHN: What I would like you to do is, could you just describe to the jurors the different types of determinations that can be made from bloodstain patterns.
NICK STAHLKE: Bloodstains, when they are present at a scene, basically freezes that scene on that particular moment in time when blood is shed. You can determine the position of the bleeding victim, if the victim is bleeding.
You can possibly determine the movement of that victim. You can determine the possible position of the assailant or the attacker. You might possibly be able to determine movement of the attacker as well.
In some cases, you can determine the type of weapon that was used. If it was a bludgeoning or a beating, you may be able to determine the minimum number of blows that was inflicted to the victim.
Some of the reasons for looking at stains is not only to determine those positions, or those things that I already described, but you might be able to confirm or refute statements given by witnesses, using the analysis of bloodstain patterns. Or you can determine the difference between, and distinguish the difference between, suicide or homicide, possibly.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, there is.
NICK STAHLKE: Well, basically there's three categories of bloodstains. There are the passive stains. You have the projected stains. And you also have the -- I forget the third category. Passive contact -- oh, excuse me -- contact type transfer stains.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, you can.
MR. GAHN: And what specific experiments or tests have you yourself conducted and performed in bloodstain pattern analysis?
NICK STAHLKE: Well, in the 40 hour course, it's very heavy in practical exercise, because the whole idea of the course is to give you experience in seeing these types of stains. And so the practical experience is, then, you use different types of weapons; you put victims in different positions; and you try all the possible scenarios you can imagine or think of that you might run into or encounter at a crime scene.
MR. GAHN: And by performing these tests or experiments yourself, how do these help you perform your job?
NICK STAHLKE: Well, obviously, if you have seen these types of stains before and you know how they were constructed, or how they were manufactured, through practical experience, you can then relate those same experiences to a crime scene itself.
MR. GAHN: I'm going to show you what has been marked previously as Exhibit 289 and ask if you -- it's a photograph -- recognize that photograph?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I recognize this.
NICK STAHLKE: This is the '99 -- blue '99 RAV4 that was in our second bay, or middle bay, in our Crime Laboratory in Madison.
NICK STAHLKE: Monday, November 7th, 2005.
NICK STAHLKE: I was asked to analyze the bloodstain patterns that may have been present in this vehicle.
NICK STAHLKE: Well, the first thing I do is an external -- on a vehicle such as this, I do an external examination of the vehicle. So, I typically will find a point on a car. It may be the front, left corner, or the driver's door and I do a walk around, typically in a counter clockwise pattern, looking for any possible stains that are on -- present on the exterior. And what I look for is anything that appears to be a bloodstain. But if it's the proper color and shape, then I have a presumptive test done to determine that it probably is blood, then.
MR. GAHN: And did you make any observations during your external view and examination of the RAV4?
NICK STAHLKE: I did not observe any stains on the exterior.
NICK STAHLKE: Then we move to the interior of the vehicle.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes. I typically will start at the driver's compartment. And inside a driver's compartment, I saw what appeared to be three contact stains.
MR. GAHN: Mr. Stahlke, Mr. Fallon is going to bring you a pile of photographs that have already been marked as exhibits in this case. And if you could keep them in that order and I would ask you to take the first photograph and read off what exhibit number it is, please.
NICK STAHLKE: Exhibit No. 290.
MR. GAHN: And is that photograph that you have being shown on the big screen here that the jurors are looking at?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, it is.
NICK STAHLKE: This is an intermediate view of the passenger's compartment. On this particular photograph, you can see a red brown stain on the driver's seat.
NICK STAHLKE: Sure.
NICK STAHLKE: No, I do not.
MR. GAHN: We'll have one in a moment. And could you point out to the jurors where you observed this particular stain. Is there anything else that you observed in the -- this compartment of the vehicle?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes. Well, this particular stain, however, it is a bit of a thick stain, so it's a little thicker than your normal contact transfer stain. There were two other areas in this passenger compartment that I saw stains.
NICK STAHLKE: This is -- I would call this a contact transfer type stain; however, it was thicker than your average transfer stain. So I'm kind of bordering on that being a passive drop, which is a drop that falls to that surface. And it's thicker because it's -- it's -- it has fallen there, as opposed to a bloody surface contacting that particular unstained surface.
NICK STAHLKE: It can be, yes.
MR. GAHN: And could you explain, just amplify a bit more for the jurors what you mean by contact transfer stain?
NICK STAHLKE: A contact transfer stain is the transfer of blood from a bloody object, or bloody item, or blood source, onto an unstained surface.
MR. GAHN: Would you look at the next exhibit that we have and just read the exhibit number and describe what that is for the jurors.
NICK STAHLKE: Exhibit 292, this is the -- yes, there's a -- this is the passenger's front seat or the front seat on the passenger side of the vehicle. And in this seat, or on this seat is a water bottle, a cassette -- or excuse me -- a CD holder, hard plastic, and I believe that's a perfume bottle, I can't tell you for sure.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I did.
NICK STAHLKE: The CD box or container would have had bloodstains on the surface of it.
NICK STAHLKE: Sure.
MR. GAHN: Can you use your laser pointer to point out the area that you observed these bloodstains.
NICK STAHLKE: Well, you can see some here, but there were stains throughout, basically covering 50 percent of the surface of this CD box, but you can see this is the most obvious stain on this photo.
NICK STAHLKE: In the vehicle, yes.
NICK STAHLKE: There was another stain on the front, left portion of that seat cushion.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes.
NICK STAHLKE: If you can, it's right in this area here.
NICK STAHLKE: More to the right, yeah, right there.
NICK STAHLKE: Contact transfer.
NICK STAHLKE: Again, a bloody source, a bloody item, a bloody object coming in contact with an unstained surface.
MR. GAHN: I would like you to look at the next exhibit and identify it and describe it for the jurors.
NICK STAHLKE: This is Exhibit 291.
MR. GAHN: And did you observe any -- Sorry, let me back up here. Is the photograph on the large screen a photograph that you have in your hand?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, it is.
MR. GAHN: Could you describe -- point out, on the large screen, the bloodstain pattern that you observed here?
NICK STAHLKE: Right here.
NICK STAHLKE: And this is a contact transfer stain; again, a bloody object, or item, coming in contact with an unstained surface.
MR. GAHN: We'll zoom in on this so the jurors can get a good look at that. And, again -- Once again, what do you mean by a bloody contact transfer?
NICK STAHLKE: It would be an object that has blood on it, that transferred that blood from that surface onto a non-stained or unstained surface.
NICK STAHLKE: Exhibit 193.
MR. GAHN: And I would like you to tell the jurors whether this -- the photograph you have in your hand is being shown on the big screen?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, it is.
MR. GAHN: And this -- I would like to ask you whether you have an opinion, to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, whether this cut to the hand is consistent with being the bloody object that came in contact with the dashboard, by the ignition switch of the RAV4?
MR. STRANG: Objection, foundation, personal knowledge, and entirely speculative. He has no idea on the timing of this.
THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection. I think at this point the witness has testified about expertise in blood transfer, but I don't think anything has been established about this photo.
MR. GAHN: (By Attorney Gahn)~ Could the bloodstain that you observed on the dashboard of Teresa Halbach's RAV4, have come from a cut to a finger?
NICK STAHLKE: Yes.
MR. STRANG: Objection, this is beyond the scope of the disclosure under 971.03 as well, your Honor.
THE COURT: I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on that, Mr. Strang.
MR. STRANG: This is -- the opinion he is being asked to express is not one included in the report or otherwise disclosed pursuant to discovery request.
MR. GAHN: Your Honor, I believe that the witness has testified what a contact transfer bloodstain pattern is, that being a bloody source coming into contact with a surface that doesn't have blood on it. I'm simply asking if a cut such as this is consistent with being the bloody source coming in contact with the dashboard.
MR. STRANG: Well, your Honor, I mean, to the extent that if someone is bleeding they can drop blood or brush it, we don't need an expert to tell the jury that; that's entirely within the canon of ordinary experience and nothing from an expert is helpful on that point.
THE COURT: I guess I would like to hear a few more questions about his experience in this area. So far we have heard something about three kinds of blood transfers, but that's about when you observe a transfer on another surface. But I think that's all I heard.
MR. GAHN: (By Attorney Gahn)~ Mr. Stahlke, could you explain, what is your experience with examining contact transfer bloodstains.
NICK STAHLKE: Contact transfer bloodstains is a -- it can be a transfer of a pattern. You can see in some stains the outline of a particular -- of the particular item that is bloody contacting a -- the unstained surface. And in some cases, you can see the pattern or detail from the bloodied item that has been transferred, then, onto an unstained surface.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, I have.
NICK STAHLKE: Well, I have been to approximately 200 field responses. Of those, then, over 100 crime scenes. And in every scene that has blood present, I examine the stains to determine whether or not there would be any additional information that would be gained from those stains that would be helpful in this investigation.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes. Many times we're asked by agencies that have processed their own scenes and taken their photographs and then realized that maybe they could gain some knowledge or some valuable information from those stains. And this would be after the fact and we have been often asked to look at photographs to analyze this bloodstain.
NICK STAHLKE: Yes, they do.