1.Bobby Dassey — Cross/Redirect (Recall)

MR. STRANG: Good morning. Steven Avery is here in person, again, and Jerome Buting and Dean Strang representing him.

MR. STRANG: That's right. I understand it's just going to be played once straight through, without narration, and that's fine.

MR. STRANG: I can't force a stipulation.

MR. STRANG: No, your Honor.

MR. STRANG: Can you switch that over to ELMO?

MR. STRANG: Good morning. Welcome back.

MR. STRANG: Did you grow up on the salvage yard that you described living at yesterday?

MR. STRANG: That is, you were living with your mom?

MR. STRANG: With Barb Janda?

MR. STRANG: You described your step dad, yesterday, right?

MR. STRANG: His name was Tom -- is Tom Janda?

MR. STRANG: Your mom is now married to another fellow named Scott Tadych?

MR. STRANG: You are the second of four boys?

MR. STRANG: All of you have the last name Dassey?

MR. STRANG: From Pete Dassey?

MR. STRANG: Your natural father?

MR. STRANG: And Brian is older than you?

MR. STRANG: Then there is you, Bobby?

MR. STRANG: All right. Then we have got Brendan -- no, I'm sorry, we have got Blaine?

MR. STRANG: And Brendan is the youngest of the four brothers?

MR. STRANG: So Brian, the oldest boy, oldest son, already was out of Barb's house back on Halloween, 2005?

MR. STRANG: He lived nearby, but didn't sleep there most nights?

MR. STRANG: So you and your two younger brothers were still living with your mom, Barb Janda?

MR. STRANG: You have been there since about the time you began high school?

MR. STRANG: Were you living in the mobile home?

MR. STRANG: Same one, same place?

MR. STRANG: Steven Avery, who lived just to the west of you, is your uncle?

MR. STRANG: Your mom's brother?

MR. STRANG: And then you also had an Uncle Chuck living on the salvage yard property?

MR. STRANG: That's also your mom's brother?

MR. STRANG: And he lives back around to the southeast, sort of behind the office buildings and the other buildings of the business, right?

MR. STRANG: In a trailer home there?

MR. STRANG: Grandpa and grandma live there?

MR. STRANG: That is your mom's mother and father?

MR. STRANG: Allen and Delores?

MR. STRANG: Them in the back?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And they live up, right off the parking lot, in the main area of the business?

MR. STRANG: They have a doublewide trailer?

MR. STRANG: And a garage attached?

MR. STRANG: Or at least next --

MR. STRANG: -- to the trailer. You also have an Uncle Earl, your mother's brother, Earl, don't you?

MR. STRANG: Earl is married to a woman named Candy?

MR. STRANG: Earl and Candy don't live on the salvage yard --

MR. STRANG: -- property? They live nearby too?

MR. STRANG: And Earl, in fact, you know, works at the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: Chuck works at the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: And after Steve got out of prison, he came to work at the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: Your Grandpa Allen had started the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: But he is not quite as active, the adult boys are basically running the business?

MR. STRANG: Your mom works elsewhere?

MR. STRANG: And back about Halloween of 2005, she had a factory job?

MR. STRANG: Did she work first shift?

MR. STRANG: So she's up and out of the house pretty early in the morning?

MR. STRANG: About the time you are getting home probably --

MR. STRANG: -- back then? Before you even got home?

MR. STRANG: Okay. So you are getting off work at 6 in the morning from your third shift?

MR. STRANG: And by the time you are home at 6:15, 6:30, she's already gone?

MR. STRANG: She would then come home mid-afternoon?

MR. STRANG: What goes on at a salvage yard business, Mr. Dassey?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Do they also do some car repair?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Did you ever work for the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: I mean for wages?

MR. STRANG: Okay. What did you do that summer you worked at the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: What do you mean by stripping cars?

MR. STRANG: After you have stripped the car, taken all the valuable spare parts off, where do the things you stripped off go?

MR. STRANG: Where does the rest of the car go?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And some of the cars now look like they are lined up in rows, and they are not crushed; is that the area you guys call the pit?

MR. STRANG: And why are some of the cars not crushed, but just lined up in rows down there?

MR. STRANG: You can still strip some parts off of?

MR. STRANG: Some of them pretty old?

MR. STRANG: Others pretty new?

MR. STRANG: How do cars get to come to the salvage yard? How is it that a car would end up there?

MR. STRANG: The Avery salvage business runs a wrecker?

MR. STRANG: Or towing service?

MR. STRANG: Okay. So let's say there is a car crash and one or both of the cars is totaled, might those end up at the salvage yard?

MR. STRANG: By a police department, or a fire department, or?

MR. STRANG: Or private people?

MR. STRANG: Any of those?

MR. STRANG: Okay. You saw wrecked cars, and that is cars that have been in a crash, come in, the summer you worked there?

MR. STRANG: Some of those cars, because there's been a car crash, some of them have blood in them?

MR. STRANG: And are there -- are there any parts from a car, when you are stripping it, that you might melt down?

MR. STRANG: What would that be?

MR. STRANG: What's aluminum on a car?

MR. STRANG: Transmission is probably the biggest cast aluminum --

MR. STRANG: -- piece on a car? Does the Avery Salvage Yard have a place to melt down aluminum rims?

MR. STRANG: Or aluminum transmissions?

MR. STRANG: Where is that?

MR. STRANG: Up around that parking lot area?

MR. STRANG: And what -- what is this thing that melts down the aluminum transmission?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Big thing, small thing? Have you ever seen how it works?

MR. STRANG: Do you know how it works?

MR. STRANG: There's a big outdoor propane tank next to it?

MR. STRANG: And you say people would come there to buy spare parts. Are these just -- just people who are maybe fixing their own car in the garage?

MR. STRANG: Or restoring an older car, or something like that, hobby type people?

MR. STRANG: Independent small repair garage people, do they ever come to buy parts, to put on cars that they may be fixing for customers of theirs?

MR. STRANG: One of the cars that we have seen over and over again, I think that you talked about, was this maroon, I think you said 1989 Plymouth Voyager mini-van?

MR. STRANG: That was your mom's car and you know that?

MR. STRANG: It was for sale back around Halloween, 2005?

MR. STRANG: That Steven was helping her sell it?

MR. STRANG: Did it eventually sell?

MR. STRANG: At the same time that one was for sale, were you aware of other cars that may have been for sale, or on and off, you know, for sale, whether they were actively advertised or not?

MR. STRANG: Such as?

MR. STRANG: Where were those kept, if you know?

MR. STRANG: This was back around Halloween of 2005?

MR. STRANG: At the end of your driveway, do you mean there's a road that comes down, if you take a right instead of going into the salvage yard business, there is a road --

MR. STRANG: -- that runs east west there near the north side of the property?

MR. STRANG: Is that the driveway you are referring to?

MR. STRANG: That actually goes down to a little loop driveway in front of your house?

MR. STRANG: And then sort of goes into Steve's garage?

MR. STRANG: So it would have been up toward the main road so to speak?

MR. STRANG: By the --

MR. STRANG: -- entrance to the business?

MR. STRANG: Or the entrance to the office?

MR. STRANG: Now, yesterday, Mr. Kratz asked you about a conversation that happened in your garage, with a -- your friend Mike was there?

MR. STRANG: Is Mike, Mike Osmunson?

MR. STRANG: Or Michael Osmunson, but you call him Mike?

MR. STRANG: How do you know you were in the garage, your garage, when this conversation happened?

MR. STRANG: What was going on in the garage?

MR. STRANG: Climbing sticks are little sticky pads you put on the rungs to climb up a deer stand?

MR. STRANG: So your boots don't slip and you fall off and break your neck?

MR. STRANG: You were doing that with Mike in the garage.

MR. STRANG: Roughly what time, do you remember, you guys were doing this?

MR. STRANG: Somewhere in that range?

MR. STRANG: And was there a deer?

MR. STRANG: Okay. What was -- This was a deer that was hanging at that point?

MR. STRANG: In the garage. Was the deer skun out?

MR. STRANG: The time of this conversation had not been skinned yet?

MR. STRANG: Or had been?

MR. STRANG: When did you get this deer?

MR. STRANG: And how long or how did you get the deer?

MR. STRANG: Now, when you get a road kill, you can't just take that home and eat it necessarily, can you.

MR. STRANG: You have got to get a tag in this state?

MR. STRANG: From the DNR?

MR. STRANG: You had not hit the deer?

MR. STRANG: But you saw it hit?

MR. STRANG: And knew it was a fresh kill?

MR. STRANG: So you put it in your truck?

MR. STRANG: Brought it home?

MR. STRANG: And it was too late at that point to get the tag?

MR. STRANG: Did you hang it up that first night?

MR. STRANG: Who called to get the tag?

MR. STRANG: And do you remember whether she called to get the tag, called about the tag, the night you first found the deer or the next day?

MR. STRANG: But you didn't get the tag until the next morning?

MR. STRANG: Okay. I'm going to show you Exhibit 123. Can you make out what that is?

MR. STRANG: A tag for the deer that was hanging in your garage --

MR. STRANG: -- when you had this conversation with Mike?

MR. STRANG: Okay. While you are putting the climbing sticks on?

MR. STRANG: All right. Now, the tag is dated November 4 or 11/4/05, isn't it?

MR. STRANG: Okay. So where did you get the tag?

MR. STRANG: You will have to explain that. At least some of the jurors may not understand this. It's a DNR tag, right?

MR. STRANG: But the DNR sets it up so that there are local agents or places you can go?

MR. STRANG: Gas stations where you can get the tag?

MR. STRANG: So you don't have to run to Madison or something?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And there's a Mobile gas station on Highway 310, near your house?

MR. STRANG: That's what you call the Mobile 310?

MR. STRANG: Did you take the deer to the Mobile 310 to get it tagged?

MR. STRANG: So you had to take it down from where it was hanging in your garage?

MR. STRANG: For anybody who doesn't know, why do you hang a deer?

MR. STRANG: And do you hang it before you skin it, or after you skin it, or both?

MR. STRANG: Okay. But you didn't skin it the first night you had it?

MR. STRANG: Because you had to get it tagged?

MR. STRANG: So you took it down the morning of the 4th of November?

MR. STRANG: Went and got it tagged yourself?

MR. STRANG: And I want to be clear about that, even though your mom had called about the tag, you actually took the deer to get it tagged?

MR. STRANG: Because she was off to work on a Friday morning?

MR. STRANG: November 4 was Friday?

MR. STRANG: Now, you bring the deer back and you have the deer tagged, I assume, right?

MR. STRANG: What did you do with the deer at that point?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And was it that night that you hung it up again and scun it out, that you had this conversation with Mike?

MR. STRANG: The night before?

MR. STRANG: Okay. You remember talking to us last night?

MR. STRANG: And telling us that it was the second time you hung the deer, and the deer was scun out, when you were doing the climbing sticks?

MR. STRANG: The -- You remember that the conversation with Mike happened after the news of Teresa Halbach's disappearance had been on TV?

MR. STRANG: That you are certain of?

MR. STRANG: After it was on TV?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Now Thursday night, November 3rd, you would have gone to work?

MR. STRANG: You would have left for work about 9:30?

MR. STRANG: To be there a little bit before your 10:00 shift?

MR. STRANG: Friday nights you don't have to work?

MR. STRANG: That is, for you, the workweek ends at 6:00 on Friday morning, right, but it starts up again at 10:00 on Sunday night?

MR. STRANG: Actually Friday night and Saturday night are your -- it's your weekend?

MR. STRANG: So Friday night, 6:30 or 7, Mike's over and you don't have to go to work that night?

MR. STRANG: But you have heard the night before -- or not you I guess but -- the night before the news has been on the TV about Ms Halbach disappearing?

MR. STRANG: The -- Let me -- Let me just get that up on the screen so the jury can see the date on it. Boy, that's tough it washes out. This isn't a picture you took?

MR. STRANG: That's deer blood on the left --

MR. STRANG: -- side? We can't do it this way, but what I'm looking at is way over on the right side of this tag. It says date of issuance of the permit/tag; do you see that?

MR. STRANG: And what is the date of issuance of the permit/tag?

MR. STRANG: Your Honor, maybe I will just, if I may, just pass this around the jury in the old-fashioned way.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang)~ As you and Mike were putting these climbing sticking pads on the deer stand, your Uncle Steven walked over to the garage?

MR. STRANG: Came in. He and Mike had some conversation?

MR. STRANG: You didn't catch the first part of the conversation, I gather?

MR. STRANG: That is, I mean you did not catch?

MR. STRANG: So you don't personally know whether Mike started the conversation or Steve did?

MR. STRANG: What you caught was Steve making a joke about, want to help me get rid of a body, or dispose of a body, something like that?

MR. STRANG: That was clear to you it was a joke?

MR. STRANG: Mike laughed?

MR. STRANG: You laughed?

MR. STRANG: And Steve followed that up by saying something like, people go missing all the time, and this girl may have left for Mexico?

MR. STRANG: Did you guys laugh about that too?

MR. STRANG: Was this the first you learned that Teresa Halbach was missing?

MR. STRANG: But one or both of them, from a conversation, had seen it on TV?

MR. STRANG: What the TV had said -- well, I guess you hadn't seen the TV, but you eventually did see TV reports?

MR. STRANG: Of Ms Halbach missing? And it described her as missing?

MR. STRANG: At least for the first several days?

MR. STRANG: Now, you, I think beginning on November 5, which is the day you tried to come home and found Jambo Creek Road blocked off?

MR. STRANG: Saturday?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Beginning that day, you were coming home to try to get your labrador puppy back after goose hunting?

MR. STRANG: In the morning?

MR. STRANG: With Mike, again, actually, right?

MR. STRANG: Okay. So you come back and you can't get to your house because the police have the road blocked off?

MR. STRANG: Beginning that, right then and there, for probably over three hours that Saturday, November 5, you've talked to the police a number of times?

MR. STRANG: About the investigation into Teresa Halbach's disappearance and death?

MR. STRANG: It was a little over three hours, as you recall, that first day, Saturday, before you could get your dog back?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And then, at least two other times, you were interviewed in the weeks, or days, weeks, months following Teresa Halbach's disappearance?

MR. STRANG: In any one of those conversations with the police, did any police officer ever ask you about this joke that you overheard between Mike and Steve in the garage?

MR. STRANG: If we go back to Friday, November 4, again, later in the night, do you remember either yourself or your Uncle Steven getting a call, probably on a cell phone, from your Uncle Chuck?

MR. STRANG: Something about having seen headlights back by his house?

MR. STRANG: And asking you guys to check it out?

MR. STRANG: You have no recollection at this point, now, of having driven down in the pit to see if you and Steve could find the source of these headlights Chuck was talking about?

MR. STRANG: Okay. But you stayed home that weekend, you did not go up to Crivitz?

MR. STRANG: You were asked yesterday, by Mr. Kratz, about -- I'm sorry, I'm going to go back to Monday, October 31. I'm hopping around a little bit, but we're back to Monday, October 31. You were asked whether you heard a telephone call come in from Teresa Halbach at about 11:45 in the morning?

MR. STRANG: That is, you were sleeping then?

MR. STRANG: And you are a sound sleeper?

MR. STRANG: The answering machine is in the living room?

MR. STRANG: Which is sort of next to and west of your bedroom?

MR. STRANG: But it's not in your room?

MR. STRANG: That answering machine is the kind that, I mean you have heard calls come in to the answering machine, I take it?

MR. STRANG: Just not this one?

MR. STRANG: When a call comes in and you don't answer and it goes to the answering machine, this is the kind of answering machine where you hear the caller leaving the message?

MR. STRANG: It's like a speaker phone, it broadcasts, so to speak?

MR. STRANG: Okay. But even with that, you didn't hear Teresa Halbach leave her message?

MR. STRANG: You had I think said, yesterday, that on Halloween, you had no reason to be in your Uncle Steven's garage?

MR. STRANG: That's true.

MR. STRANG: Now, you had been in that garage on various times before?

MR. STRANG: Been in there since?

MR. STRANG: Typically, if you were going to go in Steven's garage, it would be because he was asking for your help on fixing a car or a snowmobile or something?

MR. STRANG: He would ask your help occasionally?

MR. STRANG: Ask for Brendan's help occasionally?

MR. STRANG: Ask for Blaine's help occasionally?

MR. STRANG: Maybe Brian, your older brother, when he still lived there?

MR. STRANG: When you got up that afternoon, on Halloween, and you happened to look out the window, you see the woman you now know as Teresa Halbach?

MR. STRANG: Your recollection is that she was wearing a black coat?

MR. STRANG: It came down below her hips?

MR. STRANG: That she was wearing trousers?

MR. STRANG: They were black?

MR. STRANG: It's been a while since then, but one of the times you talked to the police, specifically a Calumet County investigator named John Dedering, was back in February, February 27 of 2006, coming up on a year ago?

MR. STRANG: Back then, when you were talking to Investigator Dedering, the events of Halloween, 2005, were a little fresher in your mind?

MR. STRANG: Did you try to tell Investigator Dedering the truth as best you recalled it when you talked with him?

MR. STRANG: Not just on February 27, but each time you talked to him?

MR. STRANG: You knew it was important to give him accurate details if you could?

MR. STRANG: You think reviewing his report might help refresh your recollection about what exactly Ms Halbach was wearing that day you saw her?

MR. STRANG: Just going to put an exhibit sticker on this so we know what we're talking about.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang)~ I'm going to show you Exhibit 124, which is just Investigator Dedering's report. And I want you just to read this to yourself. You are welcome to look at all of it, or any of it, if you want to. I thought that this paragraph on Page 2 of the report might be the most helpful. But you look at whatever you want, just read it to yourself. All done?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Does that help you remember today a little better what Ms Halbach was wearing back on Halloween, 2005?

MR. STRANG: When you saw her? Was it black trousers you saw?

MR. STRANG: You don't. What did this help you remember?

MR. STRANG: Okay. That's at least what you told Investigator Dedering, back when this was fresher in your mind?

MR. STRANG: But you cannot recall what color her top was?

MR. STRANG: What you saw Ms Halbach do, as you were looking out that kitchen window you described, or the window near the kitchen, you saw her taking a photograph or two of the van, right?

MR. STRANG: And then you go hop in the shower?

MR. STRANG: Very quick shower you told us yesterday?

MR. STRANG: Three, four minutes?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And then the next time you can look out the window, presumably you have put some clothes on?

MR. STRANG: So that takes a minute or two, or what?

MR. STRANG: Do you look out the same window then again?

MR. STRANG: And now you see her sort of walking towards your Uncle Steven's trailer?

MR. STRANG: Not too long after that, you leave the house with your bow to go hunting?

MR. STRANG: Her SUV is still there?

MR. STRANG: But you don't see her?

MR. STRANG: And you don't see your Uncle Steven at the moment?

MR. STRANG: You are not looking for either one of them?

MR. STRANG: You are just going out to get in your truck?

MR. STRANG: Your truck is the other direction, so to speak, it's away from Steven's house?

MR. STRANG: Tell -- I guess tell the jury, did you hear a lot of horrible screaming when you came walking out with the bow?

MR. STRANG: Anybody crying for help?

MR. STRANG: Was there any background noise, that you remember, that would have blocked out those sort of sounds?

MR. STRANG: Did you, as you drove off then to go deer hunting, it's what, 2:45, or 3, somewhere in that --

MR. STRANG: -- range?

MR. STRANG: The deer I guess probably, in general, aren't going to be up out of their beds and feeding, looking around for food in November until close to dusk?

MR. STRANG: You are just driving 2 miles to your little hunting area?

MR. STRANG: By yourself?

MR. STRANG: Is it that you like to get up in the stand especially early?

MR. STRANG: So you don't spook the deer or something?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Even if you are going to have to wait a couple hours for dusk?

MR. STRANG: Anybody see you --

MR. STRANG: -- as you are going hunting? Who?

MR. STRANG: Scott Tadych?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Was he a friend of your mom's at that point?

MR. STRANG: How do you know he saw you?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And what you told Investigator Dedering is that Mr. Tadych would be available to verify precisely what time he had seen you?

MR. STRANG: Why did you think that?

MR. STRANG: You hadn't -- Had you talked with him about -- with Mr. Tadych, about whether he could verify precisely when he saw you?

MR. STRANG: You were just kind of hoping or guessing that maybe he could?

MR. STRANG: What -- What sort of -- Well, you were bow hunting that day, do you also participate in the gun season for deer?

MR. STRANG: What do you use as a deer rifle?

MR. STRANG: Is that yours?

MR. STRANG: Do you have any other guns?

MR. STRANG: What other long guns?

MR. STRANG: Mostly all shotguns. But back at the end of October, 2005, you also had a .22 caliber rifle?

MR. STRANG: Marlin?

MR. STRANG: Semi-automatic?

MR. STRANG: And then your mom had a bolt action .22 rifle in her bedroom, right?

MR. STRANG: You kept your Marlin .22 semi-automatic in your bedroom?

MR. STRANG: Mr. Dassey, just to finish, are you quite sure now whatever details you don't remember of Halloween, 2005, today, are you quite sure now that you woke up and got up sometime by 2:30, or a little before?

MR. STRANG: You said yesterday that Blaine and Brendan were still in high school, got home usually what, 3:40, 3:45, somewhere in there?

MR. STRANG: And that was regular every day?

MR. STRANG: Because they took a school bus to and from school?

MR. STRANG: School lets out at the same time, the bus runs the same route, that they were pretty regular.

MR. STRANG: And are you quite sure that Blaine and Brendan, coming home that Halloween, 2005, were not the ones who found you still asleep and awakened you?

MR. STRANG: And if Blaine told the police that you were still sleeping at 3:40, or 3:45, when he got home from the school bus, and that you awoke after he got home, Blaine is just mistaken?

MR. STRANG: That's all I have. Thanks.

MR. STRANG: Scope.

MR. STRANG: Scope.

MR. STRANG: Of cross, yes. Beyond the scope of cross, so it's not proper redirect.

MR. STRANG: No recross, your Honor.

MR. STRANG: Your Honor, I will move Exhibit 123 -- or Exhibit 123, 124 was used only to refresh.

MR. STRANG: And we could probably have just a quick minute at side bar.

MR. STRANG: I'm sorry, Bobby Dassey, yes. Because he -- he did not hear it. I did cover the Mexico statement. Steven stated that people go missing all the time and the girl may have left for Mexico. I think I did cover that. Mr. Kratz didn't object. We can omit that from the stipulation at this point. Again, I'm not looking to make it cumulative.

MR. STRANG: That's right. And, again, that side bar was at defense request.

MR. STRANG: And -- Well, okay. Mr. Buting points out that the next sentence, according to, is different than the testimony that I elicited from Mr. Dassey. I did -- I did -- I don't remember exactly the words now, I got into something about maybe she went to Mexico, as I recall, but ...

MR. STRANG: Right.

MR. STRANG: Okay. No problem with my, in the last sentence there, for context, saying Mr. Osmunson once again, instead of he once again?