4.Jason Orth — Direct/Cross/Redirect
318 linesMR. KRATZ: State would call Sergeant Orth to the stand.
THE COURT: Members of the jury, you can stand up and stretch a bit if you wish before the next witness comes in.
SERGEANT JASON ORTH, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
JASON ORTH: Jason Orth, O-r-t-h.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Orth, could you tell us how are you employed, sir?
JASON ORTH: Patrol sergeant with Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department.
MR. KRATZ: How long have you worked for Manitowoc County?
JASON ORTH: Just under 10 years.
MR. KRATZ: And were you employed in a law enforcement capacity before that?
JASON ORTH: No.
MR. KRATZ: What are your duties with the department at this time?
JASON ORTH: As I mentioned, I'm a Patrol Sergeant for the Patrol Division.
MR. KRATZ: General -- general traffic and --
JASON ORTH: Traffic and criminal investigations.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Sergeant Orth, I'm going to direct your attention to November 5th of 2005, ask if you were employed with Manitowoc County at that time?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: Were you in roughly the same capacity?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: On that date, in fact, sometime just before 11:00 in the morning, were you called to a property known as the Avery Salvage Yard?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: And did you proceed to that scene?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: Do you recall about what time you arrived at that scene?
JASON ORTH: Approximately 10:59 hours, 10:59 a.m.
MR. KRATZ: Tell the jury what you did when you got to that scene, please.
JASON ORTH: I proceeded down to the southernmost portion of the property, the southeastern portion of the property where I was flagged down by two white females who were later identified as Pamela and Nikole Sturm.
MR. KRATZ: As you testify, I'm going to show you an exhibit which has already been received as Exhibit No. 86. There's a laser pointer in front of you and you should feel free to, if you believe it will assist your testimony or the jury's understanding, to use that laser pointer.
First of all, Exhibit 86, does that look familiar to you; are you oriented all right when you look at that?
JASON ORTH: That would be the residence on the lower left hand corner, trailer?
MR. KRATZ: Yes, the business, the entrance, I believe it's uncontested, is in the lower left hand corner. Avery Road would be towards us if you're looking from north to south.
JASON ORTH: Over here is where you are saying the main entrance is?
MR. KRATZ: If you come towards us, down on the exhibit, Highway 147 would be off the screen to the bottom.
JASON ORTH: Okay. All right. Then I would have proceeded down the eastern side here, down to the lower area.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Sergeant Orth, were you the first law enforcement officer, at least that you observed, that was on the Avery property itself?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: Now, you are using the pointer and you were showing, I think, the jury that you were traveling from what would be a generally northerly direction south along what would be the east side or the left side of the property; is that right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Can you show us the road that you traveled on please?
JASON ORTH: (Witness demonstrates.)
MR. KRATZ: All right. And, again, the record should reflect that you showed us that service road or driveway on the easternmost edge of the property. Where was it that you stopped your vehicle?
JASON ORTH: I stopped the vehicle right where Pamela and Nikole Sturm were standing, which is in the southeastern portion of the property.
MR. KRATZ: Do you recall any piece of equipment being close to that location?
JASON ORTH: There was a vehicle crusher in that general area.
MR. KRATZ: Did you see these women when you got there?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I observed them -- actually, they were attempting to get my attention. They were flagging me down.
MR. KRATZ: Let me ask, Sergeant Orth, whether you were driving a marked or an unmarked patrol unit?
JASON ORTH: It was a fully marked patrol car.
MR. KRATZ: Tell the jury what you saw when you arrived.
JASON ORTH: About that time I saw Pamela and Nikole Sturm both physically upset, as they were crying. They immediately directed my attention to the southernmost row of junked vehicles. And one of the two had indicated that the vehicle in question was approximately 10 vehicles in.
MR. KRATZ: Now, when you say the southernmost road, can you tell us what you are talking about?
JASON ORTH: On the picture?
MR. KRATZ: Yeah, if I zoom in a little bit here, tell me if that helps?
JASON ORTH: There we go. They were positioned right around this area and they were directing my attention to this southernmost row of vehicles.
MR. KRATZ: And the record should reflect that you are pointing to an area south of the pond or what appears to be a body of water which is also south of the crusher; is that right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: From -- And maybe with this more zoomed in version of Exhibit No. 86, could you once again show us where you parked, and if you proceeded on foot, which way you walked?
JASON ORTH: I parked the squad car right in this general area near the crusher. I asked both Pamela and Nikole to remain at this location. And then I walked down this overgrown access road, which led to the southernmost row of vehicles.
MR. KRATZ: Did you walk around the pond, that would be around the left of the pond?
JASON ORTH: Correct, the southeast side.
MR. KRATZ: And, again, Sergeant Orth, were there any other law enforcement officers at that location?
JASON ORTH: No, I was the only one at that time.
MR. KRATZ: And were there citizens that were meeting with or speaking with either of the Sturm women at that time?
JASON ORTH: No.
MR. KRATZ: Tell us where you walked and tell the jury what you saw.
JASON ORTH: I walked down this overgrown access road towards the vehicle in question, a green or blue RAV4. I observed that the vehicle did not have any registration plate on the rear, as I was approaching.
It had two branches covering the back of the vehicle. It had a old wooden fence post propped up against the passenger side rear taillight. It had an old vehicle hood resting up against the passenger side rear fender. It had a piece of plywood propped up against the front passenger side fender.
It had at least one branch covering the roof and at least one branch covering the hood of the vehicle. So it was quite obvious somebody attempted to conceal it.
MR. KRATZ: Was there anybody in that area or location when you got there?
JASON ORTH: No one was in that area at all.
MR. KRATZ: Did you approach the vehicle?
JASON ORTH: I did approach the vehicle on the passenger side and immediately glanced in the front passenger side window looking for persons.
MR. KRATZ: Looking for what?
JASON ORTH: Looking for Teresa.
MR. KRATZ: Was she in the vehicle?
JASON ORTH: Teresa was not in the vehicle; it appeared to be unoccupied.
MR. KRATZ: Did you attempt to open any of the doors?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. KRATZ: Did you in any other way touch or disturb the vehicle?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. KRATZ: After looking in the vehicle and not finding a body, what did you do?
JASON ORTH: At that time my next goal was to positively identify the vehicle; therefore, I walked around the rear of the vehicle to the driver's side and attempted to read the VIN number. However, with it being overcast and shadows and so forth, I was unable to clearly read the VIN number.
MR. KRATZ: What did you do then?
JASON ORTH: At that time I observed Detective Remiker and Lieutenant Hermann approaching the vehicle. Therefore, I met them several feet behind the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Again, referring to Exhibit No. 86, could you direct the jury to approximately -- first of all, approximately where the RAV4 was and then where did you meet with Detective Remiker?
JASON ORTH: Okay. Detective Remiker and Lieutenant Hermann parked in the same general area of my squad car back by the crusher area. They walked the same exact path I did up and over and the vehicle was in this general area.
MR. KRATZ: All right.
JASON ORTH: And I met them approximately seven feet behind the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Upon Detective Remiker and Lieutenant Hermann's arrival, did you note whether either of those individuals touched, entered, or otherwise disturbed the vehicle?
JASON ORTH: No, they did not. Lieutenant Hermann remained approximately seven feet behind the vehicle. Detective Remiker and I then re-approached the vehicle in attempts to positively ID it.
MR. KRATZ: How?
JASON ORTH: Detective Remiker walked up the passenger side. I believe he had a flashlight. He started viewing the VIN number. While he was viewing the VIN number, I looked in the back window, once again to verify Teresa was not in the vehicle. While looking in the back window, I observed -- it turns out it was a photo memory card that had Teresa's name written on it. Moments later Detective Remiker informed me the VIN number also matched.
MR. KRATZ: After obtaining a positive identification for the vehicle, what did you do then?
JASON ORTH: I proceeded approximately 30 feet behind the vehicle and started providing security. Detective Remiker and Lieutenant Hermann immediately proceeded back to the staging area where we parked our squad cars to once again talk to Pamela and Nikole Sturm.
MR. KRATZ: What do you mean by staging area?
JASON ORTH: The area where we were parking our vehicles and later in the investigation where other officers started parking when they arrived.
MR. KRATZ: Could you show us, again, on the overview?
JASON ORTH: Which would be where I'm pointing is where I parked near the crusher, which is I would say at least 100 yards away from where the vehicle in question was located.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Sergeant Orth, from your arrival, being the first officer that was there, would you have been in a constant position to determine whether any law enforcement officer or citizen entered or disturbed that vehicle?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I was. I had constant visual of the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: And I want you to tell the jury whether any police officer or any citizen entered or otherwise disturbed that RAV4?
JASON ORTH: No police officer or citizen approached or touched that RAV4.
MR. KRATZ: How long did you remain as a primary security officer for that vehicle, in that location?
JASON ORTH: I would have to look in my report to see the time I ultimately left. However, I know I received my first break at about 1:00. Lieutenant Hermann proceeded up to my location, approximately 30 feet behind the vehicle, at which time he focused on the vehicle.
I went to the staging area where I took a short break; however, even at the staging area there was still a clear view of the vehicle. So even during my short breaks I was able to observe; no one approached.
MR. KRATZ: Let's go back to that just a minute. You said there was a clear view of the vehicle from the staging area; is that where Pam and Nikole Sturm were standing?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: When you stood in the exact location that Pam and Nikole Sturm were standing, could you see the RAV4 from that location?
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: So if anybody disturbed or entered the vehicle, would you have been able to see that?
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: You said that some other police officers and other law enforcement types arrived at the scene; is that right?
JASON ORTH: Mm-hmm, yes.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Who else came to the scene? Who else was there?
JASON ORTH: Deputy Cummings from the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department. Are you talking through the entire time I was there?
MR. KRATZ: Yeah, I'm talking really about whether other departments, other agencies had arrived.
JASON ORTH: Calumet County sheriff's office had officers arriving.
MR. KRATZ: About how long after your arrival before Calumet showed up?
JASON ORTH: An hour, that would be an estimated time.
MR. KRATZ: I suspect there's logs or better information for that; is that fair?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Nevertheless, between the time that you arrived and when Calumet County got there, were there other Manitowoc County officials that were responsible for scene security or was that your responsibility?
JASON ORTH: That would have been myself; Lieutenant Hermann, when he gave me a short break; and Deputy Cummings, when he gave me a short break.
MR. KRATZ: Again, these short breaks, did you maintain visual connection with the vehicle at that time?
JASON ORTH: Yes. As I mentioned, I was over near the staging area where I could still see the avenues of approach for the vehicle. I just want to clarify, there were some small trees in this area around the pond; however, due to the time of year, there was no foliage upon the trees, therefore, you could still see through.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. I'm going to come right out and ask you, any time before Calumet County arrived, did you see a gentleman who works for your department named Lieutenant James Lenk?
JASON ORTH: I did not see him.
MR. KRATZ: At any time before Calumet County arrived, did you see a gentleman who works for your department named Andrew Colborn?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not see him.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I have of this witness, Judge.
THE COURT: Mr. Buting.
MR. BUTING: Thank you, Judge.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY BUTING:
MR. BUTING: Good afternoon.
JASON ORTH: Good afternoon.
MR. BUTING: Sergeant, you said that when you would take your break you would go directly to the location where Nikole and Pam Sturm were, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And you said -- and that was near -- right next to the crusher, right?
JASON ORTH: Near the crusher.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Well, I don't know if you can see there, maybe it's because this photo is kind of far away from you, but you have been pointing to this area around here, just very close to the pond, as the area where the crusher is, right?
JASON ORTH: Actually, I believe that crusher may be more to the left and down. That's a -- that's a focal point for me to say we were near that area; however, when we parked, the staging area --
MR. BUTING: I assume.
JASON ORTH: -- if that's the crusher, we were parked in front of the crusher closer to the pond area, but that's one --
MR. BUTING: Do you want to walk --
JASON ORTH: -- specific area.
MR. BUTING: -- up a little closer to see if this is the crusher down here at the very bottom of the picture?
JASON ORTH: If you would like me to, I could.
MR. BUTING: Well, I would like to clear this up. I want -- I want to be -- I want the jury to understand the distances and where exactly you were situated. And would you please tell us whether you were down here at the crusher or whether you were up there --
JASON ORTH: I was up here.
MR. BUTING: -- closer to the pond? You were up here?
JASON ORTH: Right.
MR. BUTING: That's right where -- You were standing right next to Pam and Nikole Sturm when you would take those breaks, right?
JASON ORTH: I'm not sure if they remained at that area. I'm referring to that area because that is where I met them. That is where I parked. And then when I would take a break, I would remain -- return to that area.
MR. BUTING: Well, sir, didn't you just say that you stood in the exact location that Pam and Nikole Sturm stood in and could see the vehicle from that -- from that spot, right?
JASON ORTH: I was in the same general area; I did not stand in the exact spot.
MR. BUTING: Oh, so you never stood in the exact spot where Pam and Nikole Sturm stood, is that what you are now telling us?
JASON ORTH: That would be impossible, if they were standing there, to stand in the exact spot.
MR. BUTING: All right. Were you standing in almost the exact spot that Pam and Nikole Sturm -- I believe counsel said the word exact spot, but you understand what we're talking about? I'm not saying you are standing on top of them, obviously.
JASON ORTH: I was standing in the same general area.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And by same general area, you consider -- Let me ask you this, if we heard testimony that the distance from the crusher to the vehicle, which was -- we have heard testimony that the distance from the crusher to the vehicle is 379 feet, would you disagree with that or agree with that?
JASON ORTH: That's probably accurate.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And so the distance from where the crusher is to about to where you are saying you were, by my estimation would be at least 100 feet, 75 maybe?
JASON ORTH: Possible.
MR. BUTING: So you consider standing 75 or 100 feet away from somebody to be in the same general area; is that what your testimony is?
JASON ORTH: When we're talking this is such a big area here, I was considering this the same general area.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Just wanted to clarify how precise you are, okay. Now, when you first walked up to the vehicle, you said that you approached on the passenger side, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And you didn't have a flashlight with you?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: But you looked in which window to see if there was a body?
JASON ORTH: The front passenger side window.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And you saw none, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And did you look around to see if there was any keys or anything like that in the vehicle?
JASON ORTH: No.
MR. BUTING: You weren't looking for anything but a body at that occasion -- on that occasion, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And then you walked around the rear over on the driver's side?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: All the way up to where the VIN number would be?
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. BUTING: But you couldn't see any of them?
JASON ORTH: It wasn't clear.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So you -- The question is, could you see any of the VIN numbers?
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did you report that, call it in, I can see you know, VIN number -- the first four, or the last four, or anything like that?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not because as soon as I realized it was not clear and I could not read the entire VIN, at that time I already observed Detective Remiker and Lieutenant Hermann approaching.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And then, they were on foot, is that what you are saying, or did you see them driving up?
JASON ORTH: I saw the last of them driving up, but what I'm referring to is they were literally walking down the path while I was trying to look at the VIN.
MR. BUTING: Well, did you see them when they were walking or did you see them when they were driving?
JASON ORTH: Both.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So you watched them park and then you watched them walk the whole way to where you were?
JASON ORTH: Not the entire time, but I observed them.
MR. BUTING: And did they park up here in this area that you have been circling, or did they park down here closer to the car crusher, lower part of this photograph?
JASON ORTH: As we were the first responding officers, we were up here more. And the more officers that would arrive would end up being further to the north, which would be closer to the crusher.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And then, Detective Remiker had a flashlight?
JASON ORTH: I believe so.
MR. BUTING: And you said that he walked over and was shining the flashlight; was he on the driver's side when he was shining the flashlight in or ...
JASON ORTH: He would have been on the driver side, by the front driver side fender, looking at the VIN number.
MR. BUTING: And you were looking in the back window when you saw this photo memory card?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: What side of the car were you on at that point?
JASON ORTH: I was in the back of the vehicle. I don't recall if I was closer to the driver side or the passenger side.
MR. BUTING: Well, what window did you look through?
JASON ORTH: The back window.
MR. BUTING: The very rear tailgate window?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And you didn't have a flashlight?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: But you were able to see a photo memory card? About how big was that?
JASON ORTH: I don't recall. I recall the name Teresa sticking out.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But we're talking about an item maybe an inch and a half, two inches big, something like that?
JASON ORTH: Probably about that size, yes.
MR. BUTING: You're talking about those little square things that you stick in the small digital cameras; is that right?
JASON ORTH: I glanced in. I don't know exactly what type of item it was; however, I did clearly see her name.
MR. BUTING: I understand that. I'm getting to that. But I would like to make it clear, just about the size of this object that you were looking at. Can you tell me --
JASON ORTH: No, I cannot.
MR. BUTING: I mean, you know what a floppy disc is, the old floppy disc that used to go in computers?
JASON ORTH: Yes, I do.
MR. BUTING: It was smaller than that, right?
JASON ORTH: I believe so.
MR. BUTING: So it was one of the real small scan discs, or whatever they are, that you use in cameras, right?
JASON ORTH: In my report, I indicated that I observed a smaller piece of paper with Teresa's name on it. After reviewing Detective Remiker's report, that is when I learned it was some type of digital camera card.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And on that little card, you were able to see her name, right?
JASON ORTH: I saw the name Teresa.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did you look in any other windows?
JASON ORTH: No.
MR. BUTING: The entire time that you were there, guarding, or standing over the vehicle, or looking into it, you never saw any blood inside the vehicle, did you?
JASON ORTH: I was approximately 30 feet behind the vehicle, I could not see inside.
MR. BUTING: Sir, we have established that you looked in the passenger side window, first, the front passenger side window when you first arrived, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You didn't see any blood, right?
JASON ORTH: I glanced in for a body.
MR. BUTING: Did you see any blood, sir?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: Thank you. Then, we know at least one other time you looked in the rear tailgate window, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Are those the only two times you have ever looked inside the vehicle?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And you didn't see blood on that occasion either, did you?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: But you were able to see something as small as a handwritten Teresa on a little computer disc, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And if you had seen blood, of course, that would have been something you would have made a note of, wouldn't it?
JASON ORTH: I would imagine if I saw blood, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did you ever see Lieutenant Lenk that day?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: And you left at 2:00?
JASON ORTH: Excuse me?
MR. BUTING: You said you left at 2:00?
JASON ORTH: I would have to read from my report.
MR. BUTING: Okay. You didn't actually keep a log of -- or you didn't actually start preparing a log of anybody coming to and from that scene of the RAV4 until 2:45; isn't that right?
JASON ORTH: No.
MR. BUTING: You did prepare a report, right?
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you try and be truthful and complete and accurate when you make those reports?
JASON ORTH: Correct. As soon as I stood behind the vehicle, approximately 30 feet, I used the small notepad out of my shirt pocket. That was a rough log that I started. When I proceeded back to the staging area is where I prepared a final log, which is probably what you are referring to.
MR. BUTING: All right. If you would just read what you say for the entry that says 14:45 hours; that is 2:45, is it not?
JASON ORTH: Correct. You want me to read this?
MR. BUTING: Sure, read the last sentence.
JASON ORTH: I started a log to document the names of individuals approaching the immediate area around the vehicle.
MR. BUTING: Okay. I started a log, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Is there any place earlier in your report where you mention that you ever took any notes, anywhere else, about who was coming and going, other than this entry right here, that says it's 2:45 p.m.?
JASON ORTH: No, my rough field notes is when I started previously.
MR. BUTING: Do you still have those?
JASON ORTH: No, I do not.
MR. BUTING: So we just have to rely on your memory; is that right?
JASON ORTH: As far as the time of breaks and the time I approached.
MR. BUTING: And who came and went, right?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You are a sergeant?
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you were a sergeant then --
JASON ORTH: Yes.
MR. BUTING: -- October 31st? Lieutenant Lenk is above you in rank?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And was on that day?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Lieutenant Lenk was in the hierarchy, what, fourth highest ranking officer?
JASON ORTH: At the department?
MR. BUTING: Yeah.
JASON ORTH: I'm not sure.
MR. BUTING: Did it ever enter your mind that one of your superior officers might want to plant evidence inside that RAV4?
JASON ORTH: Absolutely not.
MR. BUTING: Nothing you would have been, in your wildest imagination, thinking of?
JASON ORTH: Absolutely not.
MR. BUTING: So when you were watching that RAV4, it was not with the thought in mind that, I better make sure none of my superiors are coming in here and touching this vehicle planting evidence, right?
JASON ORTH: I'm not sure what you mean.
MR. BUTING: That wasn't -- That wasn't a purpose of you watching the vehicle, to make sure that one of your superiors couldn't gain access to it and do something with it, was it?
JASON ORTH: I was securing the vehicle for any persons.
MR. BUTING: Okay. By the way --
MR. BUTING: Would you put that back up there for a moment, please. I'm sorry it keeps cutting out. Can you zoom out?
MR. KRATZ: Sure.
MR. BUTING: Not quite that far, one more in please. That's good. That's good.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ The veh -- The direction that you approached, which is now the upper left hand corner, was to the southeast of the pond, right?
JASON ORTH: You're asking where I approached?
MR. BUTING: Yeah, I think you showed us that you approached from the southeast corner?
JASON ORTH: Proceeded from the north, traveling southeast.
MR. BUTING: There's actually other ways to get to that RAV4 vehicle; aren't there, from the west?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: From the south?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Or anyone of these rows on the right hand side of the photograph leading -- again, approaching from the west?
JASON ORTH: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And just --
MR. BUTING: That's all, thank you.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. KRATZ: If I could have just a moment, Judge.
THE COURT: Sure.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Sergeant Orth, do you recall the color of the memory card or the paper that had the writing on it?
JASON ORTH: I'm not certain. I believe it was white, because the name seemed to jump out at me.
MR. KRATZ: My point is, what was the other general color in the back of the vehicle; was it light or dark?
JASON ORTH: Darker colored background.
MR. KRATZ: Was there something about the memory card or the writing that stood out or was a contrast in color to the surrounding location?
JASON ORTH: If I remember correctly, it was like a white background with blue or black ink. I think blue. I just glanced in real -- like when I looked in the front window, it was just glancing in to look for a person. And when I looked in the back, it was just a glance, for the most part, but it did jump out.
MR. KRATZ: So you didn't see dark blood on the dark interior?
JASON ORTH: No, I did not.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I have, Judge. Thank you.
MR. BUTING: Nothing further.
THE COURT: All right. You are excused.
Mr. Kratz, I think we'll have you get started on your next witness.