1.Nicole Sturm — Direct/Cross/Redirect
383 lines(Proceedings commenced at approximately 9:00 a.m.)
COURT CLERK: All rise.
THE COURT: You may be seated. At this time the Court once again calls the case of State of Wisconsin versus Steven Avery, case 05-CF-381. Would the parties State their appearances for the record?
MR. KRATZ: Is the sound system not on?
THE COURT: Nope. It's not on at all?
MR. KRATZ: No.
THE COURT: Okay. It's on now. Terrific. Mr. Kratz, appearances for the State?
MR. KRATZ: Your Honor, the State appears by Calumet County District Attorney Ken Kratz, appearing as special Prosecutor. Also appearing in this case is Mr. Fallon, Assistant Attorney General, and Mr. Gahn, Assistant District Attorney from Milwaukee County.
MR. BUTING: Good morning, your Honor. Attorney Jerome Buting, and Attorney Dean Strang, appearing with Mr. Avery, who is present.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Kratz, are you going to call your next witness?
MR. KRATZ: I don't know if this is working, Judge.
THE COURT: Does that help at ali? Check the plug under the desk.
(At which time the sound system started working after the electric cord for the microphone was plugged into a different outlet under the District Attorney's table.)
MR. KRATZ: That is probably going to be a little loud. But the State calls Nicole Sturm, Judge.
COURT CLERK: If you would raise your right hand?
NICOLE STURM, being first duly sworn on oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please state your full name and spell your last name please.
NICOLE STURM: Nicole Sturm, S-T-U-R-M.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Good morning, Ms. Sturm. Thank you for coming this morning. Let me first ask you if you know a woman by the name of Pam Sturm?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Who is Pam?
NICOLE STURM: She is my mother.
MR. KRATZ: And were you with Pam on the morning hours of November fifth of 2005?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: Would you tell the jury where you went that morning please?
NICOLE STURM: We first went to Teresa's house, to enter the search, to become volunteers for the search,
MR. KRATZ: @) All right. Thereafter, Ms. Sturm, did you accompany your mother to a property which is known as the Avery Auto Salvage Yard?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: And after arriving at that scene, we understand from your mother that you received, you and she, that is, received permission to search for the vehicle on that property; is that correct?
NICOLE STURM: Yes. We received permission from Earl Avery.
MR. KRATZ: Teli the jury, as best you can remember, hat efforts you made to search for Teresa's car that morning?
NICOLE STURM: We started out heading toward the south of the auto salvage yard. We went through, looking inside vehicles, looking for anything that we could distinguish, anything to do with Teresa, whether it be Teresa herself, or any articles that would be "as to her",
MR. KRATZ: Sometime just before 10:30 that morning, I understand you found something; is that right?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, my mom indicated that she found a RAV-4 Toyota vehicle that didn't exactly match the description on the search form that we had, but looked very Similar, and was distinguishing because it was covered up with auto salvage materials, as well as branches. So, she definitely called me over, and I went running.
MR. KRATZ: All right. When you ran toward your mother's location, can you tell the jury what you saw please?
NICOLE STURM: I saw a blueish green RAV-4 with Salvage parts up against it, and branches over the top and on other areas, definitely a vehicle that looked like someone was trying to hide.
MR. KRATZ: Now, there is an exhibit which has been marked in this case and received as Exhibit Number 31. fT direct your attention to the large screen here to your right, and ask if that, in fact, is the vehicle that you saw that morning?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, that is the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Now, your mother explained --
MR. BUTING: Objection, counsel is leading the witness by Saying "your mother did this, your mother did that". She should be asked open-ended questions, and let the witness explain what she saw and what she did.
THE COURT: I will Sustain the objection to the form of the question.
MR. KRATZ: That's fine, Judge.
BY MR. KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Ms. Sturm, who took the photographs of these vehicles?
NICOLE STURM: I took the photographs.
MR. KRATZ: And, other than taking the photographs, can you tell the jury what else you did around that vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: With a tissue, I checked all four doors to see if any of the doors were open. They were all locked. So, none of the four doors were open. I also used my cell phone to call the Sheriff's Office. -
MR. KRATZ: Can you describe this "tissue" a little bit better?
NICOLE STURM: Sure. Because it was a cold November day, I brought tons of tissues with me, because my nose was running, and "what not". TI had Clean tissues within my pockets. My mom stated, "Please use -- I don't want to disturb anything, so please use your shirt sleeve, or whatever you have to avoid touching the vehicle. I thought I better, that I had clean tissues in my pocket, so I used that. I did check all four doors to see if anything was open. They were all locked.
MR. KRATZ: Ms. Sturm, you did have occasion to look inside of this; correct.
NICOLE STURM: Yes, I did look in at every angle, and saw a Wild Cherry Pepsi in the front, and a bottle of Aquafina, but I didn't see Teresa, or anything that I could identify that it was definitely Teresa's vehicle at that point.
MR. KRATZ: Could you describe the lighting conditions inside of the vehicle please?
NICOLE STURM: Well, the area that the vehicle is in, you can see there are trees, and "what not". It was a rather Cloudy day. It was definitely dark. You couldn't visably see. We did not have flashlights to be able to intricately look at details within the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Did you check for a vehicle identification number?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, I did look. I didn't know exactly where they were located. So, it did take a little while to locate the VIN number. But we be did find the VIN number on the driver's side, near the windshield. It was a black interior, and a black dashboard, but also the metal that the VIN number was on was black metal, as well. It was a little difficult to actually read the VIN number, as well as the fact that I am a little bit short, so I had to try to reach over the top of the vehicle to read the VIN number, without touching the vehicle, or actually touching or rubbing up against the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: After the telephone call was made to law enforcement authorities, where did you go?
NICOLE STURM: I stayed right near my mom, right near the vehicle, and, after law enforcement was contacted, we moved a little bit away from this vehicle, but we kept our eyes on the vehicle at all times, just to make sure that no one else was coming. We didn't want to draw attention to ourselves, in case someone would come after us, because we did find the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Was there any fixed object or any place that you were standing, while you waited for law enforcement to arrive?
NICOLE STURM: We were near a car Crusher, the machinery that crushes cars in the salvage yard.
MR. KRATZ: While you were waiting for law enforcement, did any individuals approach that vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: No. No one was near the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: How long was it before law enforcement arrived, if you can remember?
NICOLE STURM: t would say approximately 20 minutes, at the most.
MR. KRATZ: After law enforcement's arrival, can you tell us what you did please?
NICOLE STURM: When law enforcement arrived, we pointed to where the vehicle was, and we stayed on the scene to be able to give Statements.
MR. KRATZ: When law enforcement arrived, where were you looking, and what were you doing?
NICOLE STURM: We stayed right near the car crusher area, and we were waiting for the actual identification that it was Teresa's vehicle, and for them to come back and identify it as Teresa's vehicle, because at that point in time we still were unaware, if it was her vehicle or not.
MR. KRATZ: When law enforcement arrived, were you also watching the vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, we kept our eyes on the vehicle at all times.
MR. KRATZ: Did anybody enter the vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: No one entered the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Did anybody touch the vehicle, that you saw?
NICOLE STURM: No one touched the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Ms. Sturm, did you know the difference between the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Deputies and the Calumet County Sheriff's Deputies?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, they did identify themselves, with their names and which department they were from.
MR. KRATZ: Do you know which department was the first to arrive on the scene?
NICOLE STURM: The first to arrive on the scene was Manitowoc County. However, they had an officer that stood near the vehicle and did not touch the vehicle. He did not really approach the vehicle. He just "stood guard", to make sure it was not touched until Calumet County did arrive.
MR. KRATZ: About how long after Manitowoc's arrival did Calumet arrive?
NICOLE STURM: Just a few minutes. They were right behind.
MR. KRATZ: After the Calumet County officers arrived, did you continue to watch the vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, we did.
MR. KRATZ: Once again, Ms. Sturm, did anybody either approach, touch the vehicle, or enter the vehicle, while you were there?
NICOLE STURM: No. No one touched the vehicle, or entered the vehicle while we were there.
MR. KRATZ: How long were you there before you actually left that scene?
NICOLE STURM: We were there until like noon or "12:30-ish" before we left the scene. So, two hours, or two and a half hours.
MR. KRATZ: In that two hours that you were there, or two and a half hours that you were there, that entire time, did you see anybody enter or touch that vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: No. No one entered or touched the vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: Ms. Sturm, you mentioned that you had checked the four doors. What four doors are you talking about?
NICOLE STURM: The driver's side, front and passenger doors, and the actual passenger, front and back.
MR. KRATZ: All four were locked?
NICOLE STURM: All four were locked.
MR. KRATZ: Were you asked to give either a verbal or a written statement to law enforcement that day?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, I gave a written statement to law enforcement.
MR. KRATZ: Did you tell law enforcement that you checked the doors and they were locked?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, and I indicated that I did use a tissue, that I didn't use my bare hands to check the doors.
MR. KRATZ: I believe that's all I have. Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Buting?
MR. BUTING: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. BUTING:
MR. BUTING: Good morning, ma'am?
NICOLE STURM: Good morning.
MR. BUTING: Now, you talked about when you first arrived, that you began looking through some vehicles before your mom discovered this SUV; is that right?
NICOLE STURM: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: @) And, in fact, before you did that, were you there when she asked permission, or did you ask permission yourself of anybody who appeared to be on the property?
NICOLE STURM: wasn't there when my mom asked Rarl Avery for permission to search the property.
MR. BUTING: And he gave permission; right? Freely?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, he gave permission.
MR. BUTING: Is there some reason you look at them every time you answer, other than looking at me?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Have you been told to do that by somebody from the District Attorney's office?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Did you prepare for your testimony today?
NICOLE STURM: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, he gave you permission; right?
NICOLE STURM: Yes. He gave us permission.
MR. BUTING: Did you get his name?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: What was it?
NICOLE STURM: Barl.
MR. BUTING: Okay. He didn't hesitate to give you permission to check anywhere you wanted; right?
NICOLE STURM: No, he did not hesitate,
MR. BUTING: Okay. It didn't appear as if he had anything to hide from you?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Okay.
NICOLE STURM: Not to my knowledge.
MR. BUTING: You said as you were going through the beginning vehicles, you were looking for either Teresa, or any articles that would appear to be hers; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: So, you were looking carefully inside each vehicle, not just looking at the outside of the vehicles; right?
NICOLE STURM: We were trying to glance into the vehicles, and look anywhere that was open. Some of the trunks were open.
MR. BUTING: Did you open any doors?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: You never opened up any doors of the other vehicles?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But you were looking inside those vehicles, even though they are were not, obviously, not Teresa's vehicle; right?
NICOLE STURM: No, they didn't fit the description of Teresa's vehicle.
MR. BUTING: i understand. Even though they didn't fit the description, you were looking inside those vehicles, as well, to see if you could see anything; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Anything like "Teresa herself"; right? Her body?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Or anything that would look like hers?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Then, when you got to the RAV-4, your mom was not sure if it was the same one or not?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And so you were looking inside that vehicle to see, again, if there was anything that would indicate to you any articles of Teresa's?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, you were looking carefully inside there, because you were trying at that point to make some determination of whether that was, really was Teresa's vehicle; right?
NICOLE STURM: I was looking for things like the license plate, or anything that we could look at, that we had information about, to be able to identify if the vehicle was hers, or not.
MR. BUTING: Or anything, any writing that might have her name on it; right?
NICOLE STURM: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: Any personal effects that you could use to help you identify that vehicle was actually Teresa's; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: So, it was important to look inside the vehicle, not just at the outside; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You saw no blocd whatsoever, did you?
NICOLE STURM: It was a dark, or "very dark" interior.
MR. BUTING: Ma'am, did you see any blood?
MR. KRATZ: Judge, I will object as "argumentative". She is trying to answer the question. If it's not "yes" or "no", she should be able to explain.
THE COURT: That is a "yes" or "no" question. If the explanation is not sufficient on cross, you can ask it on redirect.
MR. KRATZ: I will do that, Judge.
BY MR. BUTING:
MR. BUTING: So, "yes" or "no"? Did you see any blood?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: You didn't have a flashlight with you, you said; right?
NICOLE STURM: No. I said I did not have a flashlight, yes.
MR. BUTING: Nevertheless, we are talking about a Saturday morning; right? It was daylight?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: In fact, it was 10:30 in the morning, something like that?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: It was not raining?
NICOLE STURM: No, it was not raining.
MR. BUTING: It was not terribly dark? It was a typical cloudy November day, at 10:30 in the morning; right?
NICOLE STURM: It was a cloudy day at 10:30 in the morning.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And the trees that you mentioned were around it, none of the trees had leaves on them, did they?
NICOLE STURM: No, but it was a very brushy area with trees, versus the other flat area that we were looking at, where there was nothing blocking the other vehicles.
MR. BUTING: All right. Now, you knew that, in fact, your mother warned you that it was important that you not touch the vehicle, the RAV-4 that you found; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You were doing your best not to alter the scene; correct?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And not only did you not want to touch the vehicle, you didn't want to touch any of the branches, or debris, or anything else up against it either, did you?
NICOLE STURM: Not with my bare hands, no.
MR. BUTING: Okay. The only thing you ever touched, even with a tissue, were the door handles; is that right?
NICOLE STURM: To reach one of the door handles, I did have to pull back, I believe it was a salvage part, to be able to reach the door handle. I did that with the tissue, as well.
MR. BUTING: All right. So, did you move something that was against the vehicle itself?
NICOLE STURM: I just took the tissue and pulled it back, so I would be able to reach the door handle.
MR. BUTING: That would be the hood, that was propped up against it?
NICOLE STURM: I would have to see the picture to identify it.
MR. BUTING: Would you put up Exhibit 30, Counsel?
(At which time Exhibit 30 was shown on the big screen in the courtroom. )
BY MR. BUTING:
MR. BUTING: I think that is it, right there up on the screen?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. It was some Salvage part, that in order for to you get at the door handle on that right rear door, you had to move that panel?
NICOLE STURM: I did not necessarily physically move it. I just pulled it back and checked the door.
MR. BUTING: And reached over?
NICOLE STURM: Right.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Let's go to Exhibit 29 please.
(At which time, Exhibit 29 was shown in the courtroom on the big screen.)
BY MR. BUTING:
MR. BUTING: Do you see Exhibit 29 up there?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: That is a photo of the rear of the RAV-4?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And there is a door handle on that door too; correct?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You didn't check that one, to see if it was locked, did you?
NICOLE STURM: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: And if you could go to Exhibit 33 please? Thank you.
(At which time Exhibit 33 was shown in the courtroom on the big screen.)
BY MR. BUTING:
MR. BUTING: Thank you. That is a picture -- By the way, you are the one who took all of these pictures?
NICOLE STURM: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: Okay. That is a picture of -- It shows sort of the driver's side area of the RAV-4; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: There is sort of a walkway, or a walk area I Suppose, between the RAV-4 and this red vehicle, whatever it is?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: By the way, just so we're clear, this RAV-4 was found up along the ridge area, of the border of the property; right?
NICOLE STURM: I wouldn't know whether it was the border.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Well, there is a single row of cars up along that area; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And there they were all sort of "bumper to bumper", lined up like you would parallel park a bunch of cars along a street; is that correct?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: This was the only one that was sort of "double parked", where it was next to, or where it was "two by two"; right?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall at this time if it was the only one that was doubled parked.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But it was the only one with any kind of debris piled on it; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: It was the only one with any kind of branches piled on it; correct?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You said to us that it was obvious that it appeared that somebody was trying to conceal it; is that correct?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: In that sense then, that made it very different than any of the other vehicles; right?
NICOLE STURM: It made us suspicious, yes.
MR. BUTING: It made it stand out, the fact that it was, because it was the only one that was covered like that; right?
NICOLE STURM: That, and the fact that it was similar to the description of the vehicle that was Teresa's,
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, it was not so concealed that you couldn't tell what it was when you got near it; right?
NICOLE STURM: Can you rephrase that?
MR. BUTING: It was not so covered up with items that, when you got anywhere near it, that you were unable to determine it was even a RAV-4, was it?
NICOLE STURM: No, I could tell it was a RAV-4,
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, it was just Sitting there, for anyone to find, who would be looking through the Salvage area; right?
NICOLE STURM: If you were on foot searching, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Now, from Exhibit 33, you said that you you were trying to get the VIN number off of the vehicle; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And the VIN number, for this particular vehicle, in fact, or for most, I think, are, it's on the dash, kind of at the very end of the windshield, kind of down by the windshield wipers; is that correct?
NICOLE STURM: That was where we were looking on this vehicle, ves.
MR. BUTING: I don't know if you knew that before, but you learned it that day; is that correct?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You were told by the officers, that your mom was talking to on the phone, that is where you should direct your attention?
NICOLE STURM: After searching elsewhere on the vehicle, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. By the way, that VIN is stamped? It's in the dash, in black, right there in black metal?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: The VIN itself is a black number, just kind of raised?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Or recessed, bumps, something like that; right? So, to see it, you have to get pretty close, don't you?
NICOLE STURM: Within, you know, eyesight, yes.
MR. BUTING: In order to do that, you have to walk around to -- Where did you walk along, from the rear? Did you approach it from the rear, or did you approach it from the front?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall that at this time, which way I approached the vehicle, to check the VIN number.
MR. BUTING: Can you get to it either way?
NICOLE STURM: (Pause)
MR. BUTING: I mean, could you come around to the front, and lean over, and look from there? Or did you have to go around the rear, and come up alongside of the vehicle, in order to get to the front?
NICOLE STURM: Iodon't recall at this time.
MR. BUTING: Okay. That's fair. Now, you said you waited around 20 minutes or so, before the first officers arrived?
NICOLE STURM: Approximately 20 minutes.
MR. BUTING: But during that time you had retreated over near where the crusher was?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, correct.
MR. BUTING: That is what, about 900 feet, or a thousand feet away, Or something like that? 7
NICOLE STURM: I can only make an approximation. I would say it would probably be, by blocks, maybe four blocks, city blocks.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Then the first to arrive were the Manitowoc officers?
NICOLE STURM: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And did you see a Manitowoc officer walk up toward the vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: More than one?
NICOLE STURM: I recall one officer --
MR. BUTING: Okay.
NICOLE STURM: approaching the vehicle.
MR. BUTING: How many Manitowoc officers arrived first?
NICOLE STURM: (Pause)
MR. BUTING: One or two?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall the exact number of officers that arrived.
MR. BUTING: Several?
NICOLE STURM: I made contact with the one officer, and I remember the other officer walked to the vehicle.
MR. BUTING: Well, you were watching carefully, you said, to see what was going on; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Were you watching because you were concerned that the police might somehow plant something in that vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: That thought never occurred to you, did it?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Of course not. So, your only concern was if anybody other than police officers would come to the scene of the RAV-4 and disturb it in any way; right? That was your focus?
NICOLE STURM: That, and the focus that we needed to make sure it was her vehicle.
MR. BUTING: Sure. So, once the Manitowoc police officers arrived, you were put at ease a little bit, that at least some law enforcement was there; correct?
NICOLE STURM: I wouldn't say we were "put at ease",
MR. BUTING: Well, you were no longer alone at this strange auto salvage yard, with other people milling about; correct?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Now, there was law enforcement there; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And they had guns; right?
NICOLE STURM: I would assume they had their guns.
MR. BUTING: SO, your real interest at that point was if this was really Teresa's car? That is what you were concerned about?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And at some point did one of the officers come back and tell you that? One of the Manitowoc officers?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall if it was a Manitowoc officer, or Calumet, at that time.
MR. BUTING: Okay. How long was it before the Calumet officers arrived on the scene, if you know?
NICOLE STURM: Iocan only make an approximation. T would say it was a few minutes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. How many of them arrived?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall the exact number of officers that arrived.
MR. BUTING: Were they in marked squads? Or unmarked squads?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall if it was unmarked or marked.
MR. BUTING: Were they uniformed? Or not uniformed?
NICOLE STURM: The detective that I spoke to was an un-uniformed officer.
MR. BUTING: "Un-uniformed", did you say?
NICOLE STURM: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: Plain clothes? Did you see any marked Calumet squads arrive there in the area of the RAV-4?
NICOLE STURM: I don't recall if it was marked or unmarked.
MR. BUTING: So, you don't know whether any officers that were coming or going were Manitowoc or Calumet; right?
NICOLE STURM: Not unless they identified themselves. The plain Clothes detective identified himself as Calumet.
MR. BUTING: So, the one detective identified himself; right?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And the others didn't? or they did?
NICOLE STURM: I did not have direct contact with all of the officers who arrived at the scene.
MR. BUTING: So, you don't recall if they were marked cars, and you don't remember seeing any Calumet uniforms? You don't know if the officers who arrived were from Calumet or Manitowoc; right?
NICOLE STURM: They don't have distinguishing uniforms. They were all brown.
MR. BUTING: So, they were just "police officers"; right?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: But at some point, I believe, on direct, you said that you did see some -- Well, let me go back and ask it this way: Did you see any Manitowoc uniformed officers at the scene?
NICOLE STURM: As I said, I didn't distinguish based on their uniforms. They are all brown. So, at that point in time, the people that I spoke to had identified themselves as Manitowoc, or Calumet. But I didn't speak with every officer that was there.
MR. BUTING: When you say "the people that you spoke to", it was one person that you spoke to; right?
NICOLE STURM: No, I spoke to both Manitowoc and Calumet County officers.
MR. BUTING: You did?
NICOLE STURM: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Maybe I am misunderstanding. I apologize. Were they wearing uniforms? Or plain clothes?
NICOLE STURM: Plain-clothes detectives.
MR. BUTING: So, you talked to two plain-clothes detectives? One said he was from Manitowoc, and one said he was from Calumet?
NICOLE STURM: That's right.
MR. BUTING: So, you saw somebody that was uniformed approach the RAV-4 or not?
NICOLE STURM: A uniformed officer did approach the RAV-4,
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did you ever see somebody that you could readily discern was a Calumet County officer, as opposed to a Manitowoc officer, come up and relieve the Manitowoc officer, who was near the RAV-4?
NICOLE STURM: I couldn't discern whether they were Manitowoc or Calumet.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, you don't know if or when any Calumet officers took over responsibility for that RAV-4 itself, do you?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: You said you were there at the property, the Avery salvage property until about noon or 12:30?
NICOLE STURM: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: But before that time, you and your mother had Sort of retreated from the car crusher area, farther north, over toward the entryway, didn't you?
NICOLE STURM: No, we stayed near the car crusher area.
MR. BUTING: So, you stayed near the car crusher, when you gave your statements?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And the entire time you were on that property, you were just right near the car crusher?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You never went anywhere else further away to talk with officers by any other vehicles?
NICOLE STURM: By what vehicles?
MR. BUTING: By any other vehicles, on any other area of the lot?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: You were standing next to your mother the whole time?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Now, Ms. Sturm, have you ever locked yourself out of your car?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Did you calll the police to help you get in?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Do you know anybody else who has?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. BUTING: Do you know, if you needed to, if you couldn't find anyone else to get your keys, to get into your vehicle, you could call a police officer, and he would help you get into your vehicle; right?
NICOLE STURM: I called a locksmith.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But do you know you could call an officer? Many times people do call officers for that purpose?
NICOLE STURM: No. When it happened to me, I called the locksmith.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Thank you. No further questions.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Ms. Sturm, the defense attorney had asked you about looking in the vehicle, and whether you could see inside the vehicle. Do you remember those questions?
NICOLE STURM: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Was it easy to see into those windows?
NICOLE STURM: No, it was not easy.
MR. KRATZ: I will have you take a look at Exhibit 33, although we will be looking at some others. Is there anything different about the rear windows, than the front driver's windows?
NICOLE STURM: The rear windows had a tint to them, and, as you can see from the picture here, as I'm Sure other people have done, there is glare in the windows. So, if you really wanted to see inside, and if you weren't concerned about not trying to disrupt the scene at all, you would have to cup your hands over the vehicle, to make sure you were blocking out the glare, and the shadows, which we didn't do.
MR. KRATZ: You did not do?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. KRATZ: I will show you Exhibit number 30, and ask you to describe the tint on the back windows?
NICOLE STURM: The rear and back windows were darkly tinted. The front windshield and the driver's and passenger's doors were not. SO, once again, you can see there is definitely a "glare".
MR. KRATZ: Ms. Sturm, whether the officers were Calumet County or Manitowoc County, did any officer approach that vehicle?
NICOLE STURM: No officer touched the vehicle while we were present.
MR. KRATZ: Did you see any officer pull out a device, or try to pry open the door, or anything like that, while you were there?
NICOLE STURM: No.
MR. KRATZ: If that would have happened, would you have seen it?
NICOLE STURM: Yes, definitely.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. That's all I have of Ms. Sturm.
MR. BUTING: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Very well, you are excused.