1.Daniel Kucharski — Direct/Cross (Part 2)
1,100 linesTHE COURT: At this time the Court calls State of Wisconsin vs. Steven Avery, Case No. 05 CF 381. We're here this morning for a continuation of the trial in this matter. Will the parties state their appearances for the record, please.
MR. KRATZ: I will, Judge. Once again -- Good morning, Judge. Once again, the State appears by Special Prosecutors Kratz, Fallon and Gahn.
MR. STRANG: Good morning, your Honor. Attorney Jerome Buting and Dean Strang appearing with Mr. Avery.
THE COURT: Thank you. I believe when we left off yesterday the State was conducting direct examination of Mr. Kucharski.
MR. KRATZ: We were, Judge, and we'll recall him at this time.
THE COURT: You may do so.
DEPUTY DANIEL KUCHARSKI, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Daniel Kucharski, K-u-c-h-a-r-s-k-i.
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTD BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Kucharski, good morning and welcome back. We left off yesterday morning discussing a search of Mr. Avery's garage on the sixth of November; do you remember those conversations and questions?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: Yesterday afternoon you described for the jury the location and seizure of some .22 caliber shell casings on the floor; do you recall that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: I have handed you what's been marked for identification as Exhibit 220. I ask you to tell the jury what that is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's a photo of the box and the shell casings that I recovered from the scene. I put the shell casings into the box; I brought the box into the scene.
MR. KRATZ: After shell casings were found and recovered, they are brought to the Sheriff's Department and photographed; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And that's what Exhibit 220 is, it's a photograph of those shell casings?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Now, Deputy Kucharski, you didn't perform any kind of examination; in other words, you don't have the qualifications to examine the shell casings for distinctive markings, or tool marks, or anything like that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct. I don't have that expertise.
MR. KRATZ: That happened by somebody else or somebody other than you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: If it happened, yes.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Deputy Kucharski, the next area of inquiry inside of the garage has to do with a vehicle, or actually two vehicles, that were in the garage when you got there on November 6th; do you recall any vehicles being on the -- or in the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: There was a Suzuki Samurai in the garage and also a snowmobile.
MR. KRATZ: Exhibit 230, which I'm showing you and showing the jury as well, tell the jury what it is that we're looking at.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the rear of the Suzuki Samurai that was inside the garage.
MR. KRATZ: And at least Exhibit No. 230, you can see the garage door, that is, that it's backed in or facing, if you will, what would be the main garage door; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. This picture is taken from the back of the garage, on the south, facing north, towards the large overhead door.
MR. KRATZ: Tell us what Exhibit 231 is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 231 is a picture of the Suzuki. And also in the foreground is the snowmobile, this would be taken more from the northeast corner of the garage.
MR. KRATZ: And, once again, both the Suzuki Samurai and the snowmobile seem to be facing outward, that is, towards the main overhead garage door; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: Once again, Deputy Kucharski, as with these other photos that have been identified, does this appear the same or similar as what you observed on the 6th of November of 2005?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does.
MR. KRATZ: You spoke yesterday about some other stuff being in the garage. And so the jury can -- excuse me -- so the jury can see a better depiction of the rest of the inside of the garage as it looked in November, we are going to be showing you some other photographs.
MR. KRATZ: I do want to alert counsel that Exhibit 236 is very similar to a photograph which has already been received, which is Exhibit 120. It looks a lot a like, I just wanted to show you that. It's going to be the same type of angle.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Nonetheless, let me show you what is first marked as Exhibit 232. Tell us what we're looking at, if you could.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This would be the rear of the garage, south side, taken from looks like kind of the center of the garage.
MR. KRATZ: The south side would be the back wall of the garage; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. Back wall, there's no doors or anything on that wall.
MR. KRATZ: Now, those items that you see in the picture, not only of the larger items, meaning the tool box or the compressor or the refrigerator freezer or other large items, but even the smaller items on the workbench or on top of some of those other things, on the 6th of November, were all of those items removed, or taken out, or thoroughly searched?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: They weren't removed on the 6th, that wasn't the depth of the search that we did on the 6th. Things weren't taken out of place, or out of the garage, or anything. It was more of a looking into for obvious things.
MR. KRATZ: All right. What's Exhibit No. 232, please -- excuse me 233?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 233 would be another picture of the rear of the garage, more towards the west corner of it.
MR. KRATZ: This looks more of a straight back view; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: You can see the John Deere tractor and still see the upright toolbox in this shot; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: What is Exhibit No. 234?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 234 would be a picture of the west side of the garage. That would be the side with the service door, all the way up towards the front.
MR. KRATZ: Now, that side of the garage and as we're looking at Exhibit No. 234, appears to be the most cluttered, for lack of a better term; is that a fair representation?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it was actually -- it's hard to see the depth, but it was actually several feet of clutter there.
MR. KRATZ: And, once again, Deputy Kucharski, were all of those items removed and thoroughly searched or was this still more of a general search?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: More of a general search. Those items weren't all removed.
MR. KRATZ: What is Exhibit 235, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 235 is that west wall, again, to the north, showing that service door.
MR. KRATZ: And what do you mean by service door?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: You have got the main overhead door for the garage. And then I would call it a service door, just a regular turn the knob and open the door of your garage.
MR. KRATZ: This would be, ostensibly, the front right corner of the garage; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Finally, again, at an angle very similar to Exhibit No. 120, but this is Exhibit 236; can you tell us you what that is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the east side of the garage, next to the Suzuki, from the north facing the back of it.
MR. KRATZ: So we see the Suzuki facing us. On the very right edge of this picture, you see the left wall, or what would be the east wall of the garage, and then the junk or stuff in between; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Now, Deputy Kucharski, the garage itself, we saw a picture yesterday of the interior of the garage, or I guess what could best be described as a picture from the threshold of the garage looking at the floor and looking at some other things that were inside; do you recall that picture?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Did you also have occasion to take a look at and, in fact, photograph some -- some of the floor, some of the concrete floor of the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, as we entered the garage, the first things we saw were the shell casings. And we also immediately found, in that same general area, we found reddish brown stains on the concrete, that we believed to be possibly blood.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Before we get into what you thought was blood and the collection of those items, first just want you to describe the floor.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The floor was a concrete floor, dirty with normal garage materials on it, that you would think, miscellaneous fluid stains on it; scrape marks from the snowmobile being pulled in and out, you could tell that. The floor did have a -- The concrete did have a crack in it, running north and south, pretty much the full length of the slab.
MR. KRATZ: Let's first look at Exhibit No. 237. Do you see that picture in front of you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: And as I place it on the large screen, tell the jury what we are looking at here, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is at the threshold of the overhead door. We're looking at the, with the snowmobile removed, that west bay of the garage.
MR. KRATZ: You described for us before a crack that basically runs the entire length of the garage, from generally a north to south direction, can you point that out with the laser pointer, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This would be the overhead door, where the overhead door starts, you can see the crack here. And it runs south, almost the whole slab of the garage.
MR. KRATZ: All right. You talked about some fluids, or what I guess on this exhibit looks like darker areas on the floor, could you just describe those or point those out for the jury, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. There is a fluid stain here. Also over on the west side, by the clutter, there's fluid stains and older stains here that have been dried, another stain here.
MR. KRATZ: What's photo number 238, please?
MR. BUTING: You want to just note for the record what he is ...
MR. KRATZ: I'm sorry, Judge, the record should reflect that with the laser pointer, this witness had pointed out what looks like some kind of fluid stains on the concrete floor. There isn't a particular area of the floor; in other words, it's both to the left and to the right and actually to the center of this exhibit, but they are markedly darker in color than what the other floor might be, or what's at least depicted in this image.
MR. BUTING: Why don't you just point to those again and I will note where it is on the photo you are. You did one or two at a time, do the first one.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Sure.
MR. BUTING: The record should reflect he's pointing to a darker stain area which appears to be near the left front wheel of the Suzuki Samurai as it's parked. He's also pointing to another one on the right side of the photograph, upper right corner near a red cooler, with some thermos type mugs or something. And a lighter colored gray, more in the lower center of the photograph.
MR. KRATZ: That's sounds accurate, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. The Court will accept that characterization.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ What's photo 238, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 238 is another picture of the garage floor, more towards the center of the floor.
MR. KRATZ: Now, these different angles, just so we are clear for the jury, as you were taking these photos, did you understand the significance of either some of the items that were being depicted, or some of the stains that you were taking photos of?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, some of the stains, obviously, if it's something that we believed was blood, that would be something important. If it was something that we thought was transmission fluid, we wouldn't think that would be important.
MR. KRATZ: All right. But you took pictures of the whole floor, basically; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. Correct.
MR. KRATZ: What's Exhibit 239, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 239 is another picture of the floor, more towards the rear of the Suzuki. I think in this one we were really trying to get the scrape marks from the sled.
MR. KRATZ: What's a sled?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm sorry, a snowmobile that was in there.
MR. KRATZ: On this photo, you can see visible scratch or scrape marks right into the concrete itself; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: What's Exhibit 240, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 240 is a photo from the -- would be the south side of the garage facing out towards the overhead door, again, of the floor in that area. We get a better look at the cracks, actually seeing cracks that are running east and west also.
MR. KRATZ: This photo also depicts some of those discolorations or stains as well as the scratch and scrape marks?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Now, you mentioned, Deputy Kucharski, that there were some items of interest that you wished to take a closer look at and did some more investigation or inspection of, can you describe those for the jury, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, the blood spots that we -- probable blood spots that we saw, we photographed those and collected those with swabs.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Let's talk about the swabbing process before we show you the photos. What does swabbing blood spots mean?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It comes in a kit from the State. I open up the kit, it's a sealed kit. We take the swab out of the kit; the swab is in a sealed package. You open up the swab and you have -- in the package comes a small sealed bottle of distilled water.
You put a couple of drops of distilled water onto the swab. And then you take the swab and you rub it on the suspected spot. And you have got a special container to dry it and house it, put it back in there. Put everything back together and everything back into the kit and that kit gets put into evidence.
MR. KRATZ: What kind of stains did you swab, please. I want to know what they visually looked like.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: They were reddish brown in color. They were dried at that time. They were circular in pattern. They were smaller, I would say some place from dime size up to quarter size.
MR. KRATZ: During this process, that is, during the identification of what you thought were blood spots, did you use some more of these evidence tents that we saw yesterday?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct. As we identified the spots that we were going to take swabs of, we put the tents by the spots.
MR. KRATZ: If you look at that first photograph, Exhibit 241, tell us what that is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is an overall picture of the area where we found the suspected blood spots showing the tents.
MR. KRATZ: I will show the jury now Exhibit 241. And if you could use your laser pointer, tell us what it is that we're looking at, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: These would be the blood spots here, pointed out next to the tent.
MR. KRATZ: What I see are photo -- or tents, one through eight; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: What does that mean, why did you use eight different tents?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That was identifying eight separate areas that we were going to swab.
MR. KRATZ: And, in fact, was that done?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it was.
MR. KRATZ: What's Exhibit 242?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 242 is a closer up photo of 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 tents and the blood spots -- suspected blood spots next to them.
MR. KRATZ: As we look at Exhibit No. 242, and actually since it's a digital photo, I'm able to zoom in to tent number six, as an example; do you remember this, these spots and this image in particular and what is it that we're looking at?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: You can see a few spots here to the left of the tent. And then also some type of pattern in the suspected blood spot there.
MR. KRATZ: Now, those stains, whatever they were, these were collected all by the same method, that is, by using what's called swabs, or these -- it's a large Q-tip is what it looks like; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: What's Exhibit 243, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 243 is a closer up picture of tents 4, 5, and 6 and the corresponding blood spots, suspected blood spots there.
MR. KRATZ: Again, these were all on the floor of what was later to be determined to be Mr. Avery's garage; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: What is Exhibit 244?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 244 is a closer up picture of tent 7 and 8 and the suspected blood spots there.
MR. KRATZ: And we'll just take a look at that. In this photo, you note a -- or I note, anyway, what looks like a piece of paper, a chart indicating some kind of a ruler or measuring device, as well as a color pallet. Can you tell us what that is and what it's used for.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's something that we brought into the scene. That's a scale, basically, something that if that was going to be attempted to be processed, that -- that transfer there, that pattern would have been processed. They would have needed a scale, so they can blow up the picture and process it. That's why we added it on that picture.
MR. KRATZ: On the 6th of November, did you have any -- This is just the first full day of searching, did you have any idea of the significance of any of these spot or patterns?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, we were just generally looking for items that jumped out at us. No one sent us looking for .22 long rifle shell casings. They sent us looking for patterns of anything. It was just a general search.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy, we're not going to open these exhibits since it contains biohazardous materials, but we are going to show you --
MR. BUTING: Objection, to that characterization. I don't believe one of these is -- First of all, assumes facts not in evidence as to whether there is any biohazard on any of these items, but certainly not all of them.
THE COURT: The objection is sustained. We'll do it item by item.
MR. KRATZ: All right. We have Mr. Wiegert here to assist. I'm asking that Exhibits 252, I think it's through 261, be showed too, your Honor.
MARK WIEGERT: 252 through 261?
MR. KRATZ: Mm-hmm. I think so. The swabs, if that's what they are. All right. Mr. Wiegert, please, if Mr. Buting can see those before you show them.
MARK WIEGERT: Sure.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ While they are looking at the exhibits, if I can ask you just a couple of procedural questions. After obtaining samples of these swabs, or any kind of evidence, can you tell the jury what happens to that after you are done with it.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, immediately after it's sealed, it's put in a package. It's sealed. We close up packages with evidence tape; it's a tamper resistance tape. What it is, is a very thin tape; if you try and open it, it tears very quickly, so you can tell that it's been tampered with. We initialed the tape so we know that someone didn't pull the tape off and put a new piece on. It's our initials on it. And depending on how -- what the circumstances are, they stay in your possession until you -- until we enter them into the evidence storage at the sheriff's department.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Kucharski, Mr. Buting has been kind enough to allow me to refer to these as a group of exhibits. We will show you now what are Exhibits 252 through 261; can you identify those?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, these are the packages that we put the swabs in for the suspected blood that we collected in Steven Avery's garage.
MR. KRATZ: And you identify -- or can you identify those packages themselves?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The evidence tags I filled out myself, the -- it has been opened. It looks like by the State Crime Lab.
MR. KRATZ: Let me just stop you, that's my next question. You don't actually analyze the material or you don't do any kind of forensic analysis on these things, you just collect them; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. Once we collect them, then, that's all our expertise is in, collecting them.
MR. KRATZ: Exhibit 252, however, through 261 appears to not only all bear your initials and evidence tape, but what you believe are those 10 separate swabs that were taken from Mr. Avery's floor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Garage floor; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: All right.
MR. KRATZ: You can put them back. Thank you.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Yesterday, Deputy Kucharski --
MR. KRATZ: If you could stay up there Mr. Wiegert, I would appreciate it.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Yesterday, you saw a exhibit, it was 228, an exhibit of some hanging wires. We're showing that you to now; do you remember that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: You also saw a second exhibit, what we have now come to know are evidence photos. This is Exhibit No. 229; do you recognize that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Mr. Wiegert is going to hand you an exhibit which is identified as No. 249.
MR. KRATZ: If you can find that Mr. Wiegert.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ It is a tagged exhibit, if you could tell the jury what Exhibit 249 is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: These are the electrical wires that were hanging on the rafters in Steven Avery's garage on the 6th when we were in their searching.
MR. KRATZ: The same questions as far as the collection and the tagging of those, that was a process that you yourself completed; is that correct? Or is that something that other officers complete as the week goes on?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We did not collect these out of the garage. They stayed in the garage after we completed our search.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. But the identification, at least you're looking at those, those appear to be the same as when you saw them; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: We'll deal with their admissibility, just for the record, Judge, perhaps during the break. But Mr. Wiegert you can put them back on the cart.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Now, Investigator -- excuse me -- Deputy Kucharski, how long did this search take, if you recall?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't remember the exact times; it took several hours.
MR. KRATZ: On the 6th of November, were there other law enforcement officers, other than your search team, on the Avery property?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, there were other search teams.
MR. KRATZ: And do you know, or did you have an intimate knowledge of what everybody else was doing?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, not at all.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to show you again, Exhibit No. 227. You may have mentioned this yesterday, but you said that this looks different, or at least there's one thing missing from when you first saw it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. This is a picture of after we removed the snowmobile from next to the Suzuki.
MR. KRATZ: Will you tell the jury why you removed the snowmobile?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We wanted to look underneath and get a better look underneath the tracks and the skis to see if there was any other possible evidence underneath it.
MR. KRATZ: Let me ask you, Deputy Kucharski, and there's a specific question for this, see this green compressor on the back wall?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: On the 5th of -- excuse me -- the 6th of November, was that compressor ever taken out? Was it ever removed and was a thorough search of that area ever completed?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It wasn't removed. It was just a general search. It was never removed or looked behind, anything like that.
MR. KRATZ: All right. After the search of this garage, can you tell us where you went, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: After the search of this garage, I was called over behind the garage and to the east to assist in the loading of some burn barrels and tagging the burn barrels for evidence.
MR. KRATZ: After the processing or the loading of those burn barrels, where did you guys go then?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: After they were taken away and custody was turned over, we went to -- we were assigned to search Barb Janda's house, which would be the residence due east of the garage.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Wiegert is going to hand you, before we get too far from the garage search, a one last exhibit from the garage, Exhibit No. 250.
MR. KRATZ: Record should reflect, Judge, that Mr. Wiegert is opening the evidence bag with a cutting device.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Now, although the bag itself is marked as the exhibit, I'm interested in what's inside of it; if you could tell the jury what that is.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: These are the .22 long rifle shell casings that we recovered.
MR. KRATZ: All right. And, again, you did not examine those further; in other words, you weren't the one to look for any markings, or scratches, or the striations on those; is that correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you, Mr. Wiegert. You can put them back on the cart.
MR. BUTING: Which exhibit is that, again?
MR. KRATZ: 250.
MR. BUTING: Is that all 10 or 11 together?
MR. KRATZ: I think they are all in there. You can look at them. It's the whole pill box full of them.
MR. BUTING: We'll let the witness tell us.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Would you count the number of shell casings that's in the box, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: These have been repackaged in there in and they are in little glassine envelopes, presumably by whomever processed them. There's three in one package and eight in the another package.
MR. KRATZ: That's 11 shell casings?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Thank you. I think you left off with the burn barrels, after that was completed where did you guys go?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't remember if it was after or before, we did a search around the garage area. And sometime in there we attempted to search a area behind the garage, myself and Dep -- Investigator Remiker attempted to search a burn pit, what was later described as, but we were unable to because there was a dog there.
MR. KRATZ: A dog where?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: There was a dog tied up behind the garage and its chain was long enough to get to us if we were trying to search that area.
MR. KRATZ: And where was this area?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This was behind the garage, behind Steven Avery's garage.
MR. KRATZ: I will orient the jury here. I will show you what's been received as Exhibit No. 111; it's a computer animated representation of that area; do your recognize that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: What is it that we're looking at?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's the rear of the garage that we searched and that's the burn pit area that Detective Remiker and myself attempted to search.
MR. KRATZ: Could you show the jurors where you walked and how it was that you were unable to get to that area?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, this was the area that we were attempting to search and this is a doghouse here behind the garage. And the dog pretty much had free rein of this area. The dog was not letting us into that area.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Why not, what was the dog acting like?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Basically, the dog was vicious. It came at us, barked. I actually stood by with my weapon drawn as Detective Remiker attempted to get into there.
MR. KRATZ: To search that area with that behavior of that dog, what were your options at that point?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We -- After our attempts, we pretty much seen, we had to get the dog out of there some way if we were going to search it. There was no way to search it with that dog there.
MR. KRATZ: So you chose not to search it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Did you destroy the doing or kill the dog?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, we didn't want to do that.
MR. KRATZ: Where did you go then?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We -- I was sent to tag the burn barrels. And then after the burn barrels, we were sent to search Barb Janda's house.
MR. KRATZ: We heard from Detective Remiker yesterday about a answering machine, or a message that was on an answering machine; were you present while that was played in the residence?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I listened to the tape as it was played.
MR. KRATZ: After completing the search of Barb Janda's trailer, where did you go?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: After that, searching that trailer, we were given the assignment to pick up several items, specific items, in Steven Avery's trailer.
MR. KRATZ: And what specific items were you asked to retrieve from Mr. Avery's trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We were sent there to retrieve two firearms; bedding out of a middle bedroom, or spare bedroom; a vacuum cleaner, I believe that's it.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Wiegert is going to hand you what's been marked as Exhibit 247, once he puts new gloves on. Mr. Kucharski, when looking at Exhibit and Tag No. 247 -- and as Mr. Wiegert holds it up and shows us -- tell us, what is Exhibit 247?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the Glenfield Model 60, semi-automatic rifle that we took out of Steven Avery's bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: Where was it found in his bedroom?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It was above his bed, hanging on a gun rack, that would be the north wall of his bedroom, above his -- above the headboard of the bed.
MR. KRATZ: Now, you pointed yesterday to a couple of areas on the gun, I think one was the -- Was that you or was that a different -- different witness?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the first I have seen the weapon in court.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. I'm sorry, that was a different witness, then, that's fine. Was there another firearm that was retrieved?
MR. KRATZ: You can put that back, Investigator. Thank you.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Was there another firearm that was retrieved from the bedroom?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, we also retrieved a Connecticut Valley Arms Hawkin Model, .50 caliber muzzleloading rifle.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Wiegert is going to show you what's been marked for identification as Exhibit No. 248. Tell us what that is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is the rifle that we took out of Steven Avery's bedroom. Again, it was in the rifle rack above the bed. Also noted in my report the masking tape with the handwritten name on it, of Steve, that was on the weapon when we found it.
MR. KRATZ: And the masking tape with the name Steve, S-t-e-v-e; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: And that you left on. And do you recall that being on that weapon when you first observed it in the bedroom; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: You can put it back, Investigator.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ You told us that -- or maybe you didn't. I apologize, I'm confusing you with perhaps another witness. How long did this visit to Mr. Avery's trailer take?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This didn't take very long. We were sent there to specifically pick up these items. We just did a quick sweep of the residence, located the items, tagged the items, and returned to the Command Post. Less than a half an hour, I would think.
MR. KRATZ: You had a specific purpose to go in there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Kucharski, do you recall where your next search or visit was to the Avery property that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We -- I don't remember if it was next, but we -- we searched the Ford F350 that was parked outside of Steven Avery's garage. I believe we also went into Charles Avery's trailer that day. I don't remember which one was which.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Do you remember going into any other buildings, any business buildings that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the 6th, we also would have searched what I would call the new shop building. It was a metal building that was on the property had a type of automotive shop in it and offices.
MR. KRATZ: Within this shop building -- By the way what kind of -- what kind of a building did that appear to be?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It was a metal building, kind of like you would call a pole building, I guess; warehouse type.
MR. KRATZ: I have handed you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 245 and ask if you found this within the shop building?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. In one of the offices, this was posted.
MR. KRATZ: On one of the walls, there appears to be a missing persons poster; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: Appear to be Ms Halbach's missing persons poster?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is correct.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Kucharski, after the seizure of all of these items, and after the packaging and whatever processing that you might have done, what were your duties later that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, after all the searching was concluded, all the evidence that had been taken was brought back to the sheriff's department and then entered into evidence storage.
MR. KRATZ: Now, we have heard a little bit about that process, but just generally, what does putting something into evidence storage entail?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Normally, we have a evidence room in the basement that we put -- we, as in the road deputies or whomever collects the evidence, puts the evidence into a locker. We take the key out of that locker and we place it into a drop box. That's the only key for that locker that I know of.
It goes into the drop box. And, then, when the evidence custodian has time to enter that into his storage, in the evidence room, actual evidence room, he opens -- he has the key to open the drop box. He takes the key for our locker, takes the evidence out of there and enters it into storage.
For this case, though, it was so many things we were putting into evidence, we had too many things for our locker. So the actual evidence custodian was there and he was taking things -- a lot of the things, directly into his evidence storage.
MR. KRATZ: The next day, Deputy Kucharski, that would be on Monday, the 7th of November, were you asked to return to the property?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: And were you assigned a specific search team on that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, on the 7th I worked alone.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. Do you remember what you did on the 7th?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I was sent to specifically pick up a few items. I remember a rifle out of Charles Avery's residence. I took some more weapons out of a vehicle that was parked near the new shop building.
MR. KRATZ: The next day, on the 8th, Tuesday, the 8th of November, did you return to the Avery salvage property?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: And on that date, were you assigned a search team?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, on that date I was searching with Lieutenant Lenk and Sergeant Colborn.
MR. KRATZ: Do you remember where the three of you went to search that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We searched several places including we were sent to Steven Avery's trailer to do a thorough search.
MR. KRATZ: During that thorough search, did you have occasion to search the bedroom of Mr. Avery's trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, we did.
MR. KRATZ: And we have heard about a lot of that search, but I'm specifically going to direct your attention to the key and the finding of the key in that bedroom. Do you recall how that occurred?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: Why don't you tell the jury how that occurred, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We were concluding the search in the bedroom. We, as Lieutenant Lenk, Sergeant Colborn and I. I was mostly doing the photographing, and logging in and packaging of evidence. However, I did search the nightstand. I was sitting on the bed and the nightstand was right there, so when I had time between my duties, I would search the nightstand. We were just wrapping up the search and Lieutenant Lenk left the room to get some more boxes for some of the things that we were taking into evidence.
Sergeant Colborn was searching -- finishing up his search of an area on the east wall, next to the bookcase. And I was sitting on the bed near the nightstand. Lieutenant Lenk came back into the room, stopped at the doorway, pointed at the floor, just a couple of feet away from where my feet were sitting on the floor, and said there was a key there.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to show you, just as you describe this, Exhibit No. 210, ask if this image looks familiar to you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's the key, that's where the key was sitting when we found it.
MR. KRATZ: How far was this key away from you as you were sitting on the bed?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Just a of couple feet.
MR. KRATZ: Had you seen that key, either before Lieutenant Lenk left the room, or at any time actually prior to Lieutenant Lenk's return?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. KRATZ: Now, when Lieutenant Lenk said, there's a key, where was he standing when he said that.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: He was standing in the doorway.
MR. KRATZ: Had he gotten to that area yet when he said that?
MR. KRATZ: I'm just going to ask you, Deputy Kucharski, were you surprised to see that on the floor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: What happened after you saw that key on the floor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Lieutenant Lenk pointed out the key; we all looked at it. We all decided it was a Toyota emblem on it. Stopped all searching. I had everybody stop the searching. Immediately took a photograph of it. I had taken my gloves off to finish up my -- tough to write and take pictures with the rubber gloves on. So I had taken the gloves off, so I put on a fresh pair of gloves. I took out a new evidence bag out of the --
MR. KRATZ: Let me just stop you. A fresh pair of gloves, does that mean that it had touched any other pieces of evidence in that room?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, it did not. It came directly out of the package.
MR. KRATZ: All right. So you put fresh gloves on, what did you do then?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I took a new evidence bag out of the stack of bags, picked up the key with the -- with my gloved hand, put it into the new evidence bag and then I contacted the Command Post.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Kucharski, the jury has already seen the actual key, itself, but I'm going to show you something that's been marked as Exhibit 219, can you tell us what that is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's the key that we found on the 8th.
MR. KRATZ: Photograph, isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Sorry, that's a photograph of the key.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. As you look at No. 219, so we don't have to pass the key itself around, is that one of those evidence pictures that's taken after it's received?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: You said that you had contacted members of the Command Post; do you recall who came to that location?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Special Investigator Fassbender and Investigator Wiegert came to the Avery trailer. I showed them the key. They said that they would be sending a special agent back to take custody of the key.
MR. KRATZ: All right. The next photo that I'm going to show you, Deputy Kucharski, is photograph number 246; I want you to tell us what that is, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is a photo of some of the ammunition that we took out of Steven Avery's bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: And now that the jury can see Exhibit 246, does it say on the box of ammunition what caliber of ammunition that is?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does. It's .22 long rifle ammunition.
MR. KRATZ: And just -- you said, I think, that you are familiar with firearms; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I am.
MR. KRATZ: Excuse me, just one moment, Judge.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Is this the kind of bullet that would fit into the .22 caliber rifle that you previously identified as Exhibit 247?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it is.
MR. KRATZ: After completing the search of the Avery bedroom, was the rest of the trailer thoroughly searched as well?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. We were -- We searched the rest of the trailer thoroughly and then we -- also assigned to specifically take into evidence some of the computer and computer storage devices.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Deputy Kucharski, I'm going to ask you, based upon your positioning a couple of feet away from that key; did you believe that either Lieutenant Lenk or Sergeant Colborn had an opportunity, out of your eyesight to place, or what's called plant, that key there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, they did not.
MR. KRATZ: How can you be so sure?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, first of all they would have had to have the key. I think the only person that would have had the key would be the person that killed Teresa --
MR. BUTING: Objection, speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BUTING: Move to strike.
THE COURT: Court will order the answer stricken.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ I want you to limit your comments to your observations. What about your observations do you believe it was impossible or improbable for them to plant that key?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: My actual observations, I would have to say that -- that it could be possible, as in I was doing other things. I was taking photographs. I was searching the nightstand. So, if we're just limiting it to if it was possible that they could do it without me seeing it, I would say, yes, I guess it is possible.
MR. KRATZ: All right. And is that in the sense of anything is possible?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's in the sense of it's possible aliens put it there, I guess.
MR. KRATZ: All right. And in that regard, though, Deputy Kucharski, while you were working with these gentlemen that week, in fact, you worked with them more than one day, didn't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Is there anything that either led up to that moment, or anything from that moment forward that caused you any concern, either about their integrity as law enforcement officers, or about the performance of their duties out at the scene?
MR. KRATZ: After that particular moment, that is, after the key was found, were you continued to be assigned to Lieutenant Lenk and Sergeant Colborn; in other words, did you have further responsibilities that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Did you perform any other of what you are now calling thorough searches that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. We made a thorough search of Charles Avery's trailer.
MR. KRATZ: Now, the kind of search and, again, we have talked about different kinds of searches, but could you describe the search of Charles Avery's trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would believe that would be the most thorough search that we did. I think we attempted to look in every place in Charles Avery's trailer. We actually even went underneath the trailer. We went into the -- I wouldn't call it an attic, but on the top of the trailer there's a -- some type of crawl space. Sergeant Colborn actually crawled up in there.
MR. KRATZ: You weren't targeting or limiting your search efforts to just Steven Avery's trailer; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: At the conclusion of that day, Deputy, that is, on the 8th, did you once again return to the sheriff's department and enter or log in all of this evidence?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: Judge, I will be moving at this time to admit, not only the physical evidence but the photographs that have been identified by this witness. I can list those if --
MR. BUTING: I object to --
MR. KRATZ: -- Court or counsel want me to.
MR. BUTING: The only one I object to is the wire which this witness testified he did not collect.
MR. KRATZ: I didn't intend to offer that through this witness, Judge.
MR. BUTING: Just one moment, then.
THE COURT: Can we clarify what number that particular exhibit is.
MR. KRATZ: Sure, that was Exhibit No. 249. That was the only one that we haven't offered, your Honor.
MR. BUTING: What is -- What are 251 and 236?
MR. KRATZ: 251 was not identified by this witness.
MR. BUTING: Okay.
MR. KRATZ: That will be a different -- different matter.
MR. BUTING: 236?
MR. KRATZ: 236 is a photograph, one of the photos of the inside of the garage.
(Court reporter couldn't hear.)
MR. KRATZ: Photograph of the garage is 236.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz, can you list the exhibit numbers of the exhibits that you are seeking the admission of?
MR. BUTING: That's probably a good way to do that.
MR. KRATZ: I can certainly try.
THE COURT: You can say, like 241 through 250, or whatever. You don't have to identify them all individually, but specify the numbers.
MR. KRATZ: I think I'm able to do that. I think it's Exhibit No. 221 is what I'm starting with and it goes through -- goes through 261, with the exceptions, your Honor, of 251, and 249.
MR. BUTING: No objection to that, then.
THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 221 through 261, with the exception of Exhibits 249 and 251 are admitted.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: Mr. Buting.
MR. BUTING: Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY BUTING:
MR. BUTING: Good morning, Deputy.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Good morning.
MR. BUTING: We have a lot to cover here. Let me maybe start towards the end here. When you were asked by Mr. Kratz if it was possible that Lenk or Colborn could have planted, let's say the key, without your seeing them, your answer was possible, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And it wasn't -- There weren't any aliens in the room, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not that I know of.
MR. BUTING: So your later comment about it being possible in the same way that aliens are possible, really isn't a fair characterization of what you meant, is it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Are you asking my opinion on ...
MR. BUTING: I'm asking you to characterize your answer. When you said it's possible, you didn't mean that it was possible in the same sense that aliens are possible, did you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't understand.
MR. BUTING: All right. Let me try it this way. You were a collections officer, evidence collections officer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: That was part of your role?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You also were documenting?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And photographing?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Taking gloves off, putting gloves on?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And, in addition to that, you were a searcher?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You actually opened drawers or took things out yourself?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And in the process of doing that, you looked at the items that you would take out, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And your attention and your focus would be on those items, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you were not told at the beginning of that shift, that your function was to be a watchdog for Mr. Lenk and Mr. Colborn, were you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: You were not told to keep your eyes on those two officers at all times?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: In fact, this was a lieutenant and a sergeant, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Both of whom clearly out rank you, right?
MR. BUTING: You were a deputy?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: They weren't in my chain of command; I work for the Calumet County Sheriff's Department.
MR. BUTING: Okay. In terms of officer rank, they out ranked you though, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: They held a higher rank in Manitowoc's --
MR. BUTING: Okay.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: -- Sheriff's Department, yes.
MR. BUTING: And did you ever know them before?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Never met them before.
MR. BUTING: Never met them before, okay. But you knew their rank?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And I'm going to object as irrelevant. And so does General Schwartzkopf, but that has nothing to do with this witness.
MR. BUTING: This is cross-examination.
THE COURT: This is cross, I will give him a little latitude.
MR. BUTING: You knew their rank?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Sergeant and lieutenant.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And I take it that it never occurred to you that a fellow law enforcement officer would do something like plant evidence, did it; on that day, in that room?
MR. BUTING: That was not on your radar, was it?
MR. BUTING: You were not watching Lenk and Colborn to be sure that they did not plant evidence, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: What we do know is, that when you came into that bedroom the first time, there was no key on the floor, was there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And you had been in that bedroom searching with Lenk and Colborn for about an hour, close to an hour, by the time that key was discovered, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Approximately, yes.
MR. BUTING: Three people in that little bedroom, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And Colborn and Lenk were both searching the desk and bookcase in that area, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: The two of them --
MR. BUTING: I think I will put up that ELMO photo again.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ I'm showing you Exhibit -- I'm sorry -- 104, which is now up on the screen; do you recognize that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Appears to be some type of model of the bedroom in Steven Avery's residence.
MR. BUTING: All right. And it's missing a lot of items though, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Looks like just the furniture, and the walls and windows and that type of thing is missing.
MR. BUTING: But over in the -- what would be the top right photo -- or corner of this photo, there's a desk and a chair, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And a bookcase with some sort of vertical slots?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And there were lots of things on and in those items, right, at that time?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: We're talking November 8th?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And that's the area that both Lieutenant Lenk and Sergeant Colborn were searching, among others?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Among others, yes.
MR. BUTING: But during that one hour, they were searching in that area, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Do you remember the key picture, Exhibit No. -- Do you have the photograph up here with the key on the floor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Oh, on the floor, I don't think so.
MR. STRANG: It's 210.
MR. BUTING: 210.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Showing you 210, again, up on the screen, that's what you were looking at earlier and that's -- you took this photo, didn't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I did.
MR. BUTING: And that's exactly the way the key looked when you first saw it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And there's also an evidence -- some sort of like an -- looks to me like a grocery bag, but a brown corrugated sack or something like that, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct, in the foreground.
MR. BUTING: And was that there when Lieutenant Lenk left the room or did he bring that back in with him?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: He didn't bring it back in with him. I don't remember it's exact placement as he left the room.
MR. BUTING: All right. And you were actually very nearby searching the nightstand?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, my feet would have been just on the other side of that -- that paper bag.
MR. BUTING: And so bear with me for a minute, I don't know if my shadow can be on here, but -- so you were turned like this with your back to where the key is, searching the nightstand, weren't you?
MR. BUTING: You were seated on the bed doing it then, right.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: But your body is turned so that this key is slightly behind you or over your shoulder?
MR. BUTING: Well, do you see the nightstand in there?
MR. BUTING: The nightstand is off -- off the screen altogether, isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So if you are able to reach the nightstand, you have got to be over here somewhere, to the left side of this photo? Or were your feet hanging over in top of the bag?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, they were just on the other side of the bag. My feet were actually pointing directly towards the key. It was sitting there and the nightstand would have been to my left hand, the key would have been directly in front of me.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Well, but you didn't see the key?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: The key was right, smack, dab in front of you and you didn't see it until Lenk pointed it out to you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And yet you immediately recognized this key as something of importance, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: As soon as we saw it was a Toyota key, yes.
MR. BUTING: Now, sometime earlier than that --
MR. BUTING: I don't know, Judge, do you want to take a break yet?
THE COURT: I was going to let you finish this line of questioning, then take a break.
MR. BUTING: Why don't we take a break, because I may want to do something; and I would consider that before.
THE COURT: All right. Members of the jury, we'll take our morning break at this time. I will remind you, again, not to discuss the case in any fashion during the break.
(Jury not present.)
THE COURT: You may be seated.
MR. BUTING: I don't have anything else for the record. I just want to look through the exhibits before I show them to this officer.
THE COURT: Very well, we'll report back in 15 minutes.
(Recess taken.)
(Jury present.)
THE COURT: At this time, Mr. Buting, you may resume your cross as soon as we get a witness.
CROSS-EXAMINATION CONTD BY ATTORNEY BUTING:
MR. BUTING: All right. Deputy, we were talking about this key when we left off. And if I understand -- and I'm not sure if it was in your testimony -- but if I understand your report, just before Lieutenant Lenk left the room, he and Sergeant Colborn were searching that cabinet that's displayed here on the screen, right next to the key, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, before he left the room, they were searching -- Lieutenant Lenk was assisting Sergeant Colborn move it around and stuff.
MR. BUTING: And Lieutenant Lenk was about one foot from you when he was doing that, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So his body would have been between you and this particular area?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: All right. And you guys talked, after it was found, like, geez, where did that come from, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Did you examine the back of this bookcase cabinet at that time?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not directly after it was found. After it was found, I was pretty much married to it and I stayed with it until Special Agent Joy took it. And then we went back into the bedroom and completed a search. We took a look at that cabinet and tried to figure out where it came from.
MR. BUTING: Did you seize the cabinet at that time?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, we did not.
MR. BUTING: You didn't do that for like another month, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I never did.
MR. BUTING: You didn't have anything to do with that. Well, let me show you a photo. I'm going to tell you that it's not the same day. Apparently you didn't take any photographs that same day of what the back of this cabinet looked like, did you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: But you theorized, between you and Lenk and Colborn, that perhaps the key had fallen out of the rear panel of this cabinet?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, we had several theories.
MR. BUTING: Let's talk one at a time.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Okay. Yes, one of the theories was it came out of the back of the cabinet. That's what we decided was the most likely.
MR. BUTING: All right. You also theorized that maybe there was a hidden compartment or something, in the cabinet?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, we didn't find any hidden compartment.
MR. BUTING: Oh, you looked, right, you looked for any hidden compartments?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not me personally, no.
MR. BUTING: Well, when you say, we didn't find any, how do you know that you didn't find any?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Lieutenant Lenk and Sergeant Colborn looked.
MR. BUTING: Okay.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: While I was there.
MR. BUTING: And while they were there, they didn't find any hidden cabinets, or compartments in that cabinet?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And another theory was that perhaps it had been underneath, somehow caught up underneath the cabinet, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And that was ultimately discarded and you guys settled on this theory, that somehow the key just managed to get around, through that gap?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: In my mind, it was a general, that it came from this -- this cabinet. We also -- There was some thought of in a door area, there was something on the wall, that it possibly could have came from there. But it was pretty quickly dismissed.
MR. BUTING: Right. Because there is a outlet right next to it and a electrical cord, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Right. That's not what I was talking about on the wall. Something higher up on the wall.
MR. BUTING: All right.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: You know, several feet off the floor, there was, but it was pretty obvious that it couldn't have come from there.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So then, your theory that you came up with on that day, to explain why no one had found this key, was that -- And, by the way, the cabinet was up against -- pretty close to up against the wall, right? Wasn't sitting out 3 inches or so, was it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It wasn't sitting out noticeably. I can't really say as how close it was to the wall, but it wasn't -- it wasn't a foot away from the wall?
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, at any rate, I don't know if I need these gloves, but since I saw Detective Wiegert use them, I will use them as well. The theory was, then, that this key and the cloth fob and the plastic buckle, somehow managed to come out that back corner, walk around the side, and lay like that, right?
MR. KRATZ: Object, Judge, that's a mischaracterization of the evidence.
THE COURT: Well, that's up to the witness to answer. I will allow the question.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: As we were searching that bookshelf, the bookshelf was --
MR. BUTING: Let me just -- Hold on.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: -- pulled away --
MR. KRATZ: Objection. He asked for an explanation.
MR. BUTING: I asked if that was his theory; he can say yes or no. And then we'll go from there. This is cross-examination.
THE COURT: No, I'm going to allow him to give his answer.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Go ahead.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The bookcase was pulled away, turned, searched, and it was reasonable that while it was turned away it fell into that area.
MR. BUTING: But this key --
MR. BUTING: Can I show this to the jury?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Is there some reason we're keeping gloves on with this, that the jury can't just handle it themselves or ...
THE COURT: From what my understanding is there may be, but --
MR. BUTING: All right. We'll deal with that if need be. I will hold it up so everybody can see it. Okay.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ You didn't hear it hit the floor, whenever it got there, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct, the floor is carpeted.
MR. BUTING: Well, can I drop it on the floor here, or do we not want to do that?
MR. KRATZ: What are we doing, Judge?
MR. BUTING: We're testing --
MR. KRATZ: Is this an experiment in front of the jury? If it is, then we need to replicate the conditions. I object to any experimentation at this time.
MR. BUTING: That's fine. We'll hold off on that. The bookcase hasn't come in, so I don't know if they intend to introduce it or not, but it's not here.
MR. BUTING: In any event, you did not hear it hit the floor, carpet or otherwise?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And as you, not Lieutenant Lenk and Colborn, but as you were sitting there, thinking, my gosh, how did this key get here, one of the theories that did not occur to you was that Lieutenant Lenk or Colborn perhaps put it there, was it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Did not occur to me, no.
MR. BUTING: But as you testified before, because you were busy and occupied with other duties, it is possible that that might have happened without you seeing it, isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Possible.
MR. BUTING: Thank you. The electrical wire that we saw a photograph of and that you saw a picture of as well, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I saw a photograph.
MR. BUTING: You know what we're talking about?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: It was up on the rafters?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Are you a hunter?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Do you hunt for deer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Are you familiar with what people do when they catch a deer and bring it home.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to object, Judge, assuming a fact not in evidence. I suspect Mr. Avery is not a deer hunter. If he is, we have got some other issue.
THE COURT: Well, he may or may not be, but I'm going to allow the question.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Do you typically hang a deer in a garage after you have done something to it, dressed it, gutted it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We hang it outside.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But you know that some people do hang a deer in the garage, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would assume.
MR. BUTING: In fact, there was a deer in the neighboring garage that very day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Objection, irrelevant.
MR. BUTING: It's completely relevant.
MR. KRATZ: Brendan Dassey can be a deer hunter, Steven Avery can't.
MR. BUTING: If we're going to argue this in front of the jury, I think that's a problem.
THE COURT: I'm overruling the objection.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ There was a deer hung from the rafters in the garage right next door, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And so you don't know whether this wire was used to hang deer in that garage, on some occasions, either, do you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know what the wire was used for.
MR. BUTING: Do you know whether wire was ever sent to the Crime Lab for any kind of test?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: Okay. I suspect we'll hear, if it was.
MR. KRATZ: I ask that that be stricken, Judge.
THE COURT: The Court will order that that remark be stricken, the jury is instructed to disregard it.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Okay. We looked at a few photographs of the garage. Let me move to the garage for a minute. Were you taking the photographs?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I took photographs.
MR. BUTING: All right. Did you take any photographs before, before anything had been moved out of that garage, completely as is?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I took a lot of photographs, I would have to go through my photo line up to see if I did.
MR. BUTING: None come to mind, do they?
MR. BUTING: And so, we don't really have a complete photographic record of what Mr. Avery's garage actually looked like with all of the items in, before anything was moved out, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm not sure.
MR. BUTING: You said it was pretty cluttered, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Not a whole lot of room in there even when you got there, right? For instance, Exhibit 231 shows the snowmobile and the Suzuki Samurai?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Together. We can't see what's to the right of the snowmobile, though, right, in this photo?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Do you know what an engine hoist is?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Have you ever seen one before?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: I show you what's been marked --
MR. BUTING: Actually, I will show it to counsel first, I'm sorry.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ I'm just going to show you, I'm not going to have you identify these. I'm just going to -- but for the record, I will say it's Exhibit 262 and 263. You said you are familiar with what an engine hoist looks like, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Can you just tell me whether or not that large black item is an engine hoist?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is an engine hoist as I know it.
MR. BUTING: Now, just so we're clear, this photograph was not taken in November; this was taken later in March, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I have no idea when this photo was taken.
MR. BUTING: Does the garage look familiar to you, though?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's Steven Avery's garage, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And in it is a large hoist?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Where in the garage was it on November? Right as you walk in; do you recall it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't recall.
MR. BUTING: Do you recall that this was behind the tractor as you walk into the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I don't recall.
MR. BUTING: Is it possible that it was?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: All right. Because we don't have a picture of that area to the immediate right, before items start getting moved in and out of the garage, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. Yes, we do.
MR. BUTING: We do?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The only item we removed was the snowmobile.
MR. BUTING: Okay.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Besides the items that we collected for evidence.
MR. BUTING: We looked through these photographs of the tent -- little tent things, a little quickly the first time around. I just want to go through them with you again for a moment. You mentioned items one through eight, I think, along the right side of the photo, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: There's another item, No. 16 down here, a little tent?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: What was that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't recall.
MR. BUTING: And do you see that crack that begins from where item 16 is and runs, what would be north/south, along the left side of the photograph?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: That's the crack that you were saying was the big crack, that went the full length of the garage, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Approximately.
MR. BUTING: And you're down on your hands and knees, or squatting or something, in order to find these little bloodstains, aren't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The bloodstains were pretty evident. No one --
MR. BUTING: Well, you get down --
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: -- was down on their hands and knees --
MR. BUTING: You get down in a squat position --
COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, you're going to have to talk one at a time. No one was down on their hands and knees?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not that I saw, it was a dirty floor.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But you would have to squat down, at least squat down in order to make your circles and put your tents and all that stuff, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So you are getting your face within just a couple of feet or so from the floor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you are looking for any evidence, at that time, of a possible homicide, aren't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We were -- There was a general search. We were looking for evidence that stood out. Didn't have anything specific at that time that we were looking for.
MR. BUTING: Well, Officer, you picked up some shells, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you thought that maybe those were relevant, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And that they may, in fact, be -- have possibly been involved with a homicide, that's why you took them, isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So you were looking for evidence of a homicide?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Including shells, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And any bullet's that you might come across, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you are also, at the same time, looking for bloodstains on the floor, which can be very small, dime or smaller, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you are looking all along this crack, virtually every area that is open floor in this whole area, you are looking for bloodstains, or anything that might be evidence of a homicide, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Pointing now to the left lower side of this photograph, where there's a crack; did you see a bullet on November 6th, 2005?
MR. BUTING: Because if you had, you would have collected it, wouldn't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: That would have been extremely important evidence, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you did not?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I did not see it, a bullet there.
MR. BUTING: Who else was searching with you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the 6th, in the garage, was Lieutenant Lenk, Sergeant Colborn and Detective Remiker.
MR. BUTING: So four of you, in that garage, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And none of you found a bullet, or bullet fragment, did you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: Now, let's look at Exhibit 243 for a moment.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Counsel, kind of zoomed in on it before, so let me do that with the ELMO.
MR. BUTING: Actually, looks to me like it may be slightly different, but you mentioned that there were two little areas that you thought might be bloodstains there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct, there's spots and then it appears to be some type of pattern.
MR. BUTING: Do you have the laser up there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Could you point to where those two are exactly.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The two that the tent for six was identifying were these spots and this is the pattern.
MR. BUTING: So when you use your swab, did you swab them separately or did you swab this one, put it in a bag or whatever, swab, what, this one, put it in a bag, what did you do?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I wasn't taking the swabs.
MR. BUTING: Oh, you weren't?
MR. BUTING: Who was?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Detective Remiker, Lieutenant Lenk, and Sergeant Colborn were taking the swabs, or giving them to me, and I was packaging them.
MR. BUTING: All right. You were watching, you were seeing how it was done, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So you don't know, or do you, whether this swab from No. 6 pertains to this spot, this spot, this spot, or this big blotch, do you?
MR. BUTING: If they thought they were separate items, they probably would have swabbed them separately; would that be the procedure?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, the procedure that we decided -- that I decided, we had several drops of blood and patterns. You normally take several swabs of them. And we decided to take many swabs of them, pretty much as many as we could. I had a limited amount of swabs in my kit, so we used what we had, but we took many swabs from there.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But just so we're clear here, when you said, I think it was items one through eight that were swabs of possible blood, you didn't know it was blood, just possible?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And we entered a whole bunch of these exhibits together, they all say -- I will let you look at a couple of them. I think they are all pretty much the same. Well, maybe not, let me look here. I'm going to show you Exhibit 659, which is one of these little paper bags, take a look at that for a moment, would you, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And that says -- description of it is -- Well, why don't you just read it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Test/control, possible blood drop.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So control, what does that mean; do you know?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. When we're trained, there is some debate right now as to whether a control is even necessary. When I was in school, they said that it was basically up to us. A control would be -- You have the suspected spot, and then a control would be a relatively uncontaminated area. The reasoning behind it is -- I think the reasoning behind it is to try and pick up any type of contaminates that may be in that area besides suspected blood, but, again, it was something that they said was optional at this point in time.
MR. BUTING: Who was telling you it was optional?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The trainers at Fox Valley Technical College.
MR. BUTING: When did they tell you it was optional, when you were there, or since?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: When I went to school in 2005.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, this exhibit in front of you, Exhibit 259, does that have more than one swab in it, or should it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Just what two, three, five, or do we have any way of knowing?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Open it up.
MR. BUTING: Well, I mean is it practice to put in more than one swab in each little bag.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Inside the bag, they are in separate containers.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So there could be more than one swab in each one of these bags?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And the fact that there is a control taken, there should be, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Looking at 651, read what that says, please.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It says test/control and then control is crossed out, and then continues, possible blood drop.
MR. BUTING: So, with control being crossed out, does that mean there is no control, most likely, in this one?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would assume so.
MR. KRATZ: What exhibit was that, you said 600 something?
MR. BUTING: 6 -- I'm sorry, it's 255, the tag number is 651.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ And, actually, this is your handwriting, isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, that's not my handwriting.
MR. BUTING: Doesn't it say Officer Kucharski on it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does.
MR. BUTING: I'm sorry, Kucharski?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: All right. You didn't fill this out, but it has your name on it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Do you know who did?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I don't.
MR. BUTING: Hmm. All right. You don't know who sealed it either?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would have to look at the package to see if there's initials on it.
MR. BUTING: Well, probably not important, so let's move on. Let me just clear up a couple things here. When you do these swabs and you're looking for possible areas of blood, do you do a phenolphthalein test? Do you know what that is?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm thinking that's some type of presumptive test.
MR. BUTING: Correct. And do you do those -- Did you do those on this day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I think we -- at the beginning we may have done one, just to make sure that what we were looking at was blood. I'm not positive on that, though.
MR. BUTING: All right. So you may not have. But in any event, you are picking out spots on the garage floor that may or may not be blood, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Because you mentioned that there's a number of big areas of fluid and that sort of thing, like you often find on garage floors, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And like this exhibit right there -- I'm going to put up a different one to show a little bit more -- perhaps the untrained eye -- had a lot of red spots just above the exhibit or the evidence tent number six, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: But that's not blood is it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: Well, did you swab it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: Have you ever seen transmission fluid?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Have you ever seen it stain a floor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Is transmission fluid red?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Reddish brown tinge if I remember, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And there were literally -- there's lots of stains like this particular red one in that garage; is that fair to say?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I didn't hear, a lot of scenes --
MR. BUTING: A lot of stains like this, these reddish?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Sort of brighter red stains?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You're looking more for dark brownish red, right, when you are looking for blood?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And this -- Let me just go back for one minute. You mentioned right under the six, there's almost, there's what's commonly called a contact type of a stain, right there, right? Shows a little bit of a pattern?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it's some type of pattern.
MR. BUTING: Did you ever make a determination of what that was?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm not trained in blood patterns.
MR. BUTING: Well, did that look like a blood pattern to you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's a pattern.
MR. BUTING: Looks like some sort of a -- something contacted it with, circles, like a footprint perhaps?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Something like that.
MR. BUTING: And, similarly, No. 8 -- I'm sorry, this is Exhibit No. 244, by the tent. You have that little measuring stick or whatever next to some sort of a contact pattern there, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Some kind of pattern, yes.
MR. BUTING: You never -- Do you have any information as to whether that was ever identified as anything of relevance?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Could have been just, again, totally unrelated to anything in this case, as far as you know?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know if it was related or unrelated.
MR. BUTING: All right. Exhibit 245 is the missing poster for Teresa Halbach that you found in the office of the Avery property, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I found it -- We found it in one of the offices of what I call the new shop building.
MR. BUTING: Well, this isn't going to do what I want it to do so I'm going to just show it to you instead. Actually, I think we have one of these better. Okay.
Okay. Again, I'm going to just show you Exhibit 10, which has already been identified and introduced as an exhibit. That's a color version of the same thing we just saw on the prior exhibit, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And it has information about the missing woman, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And also about her vehicle, does it not?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does.
MR. BUTING: And does it have a license plate on there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does.
MR. BUTING: SW William 582?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: SWH-582.
MR. BUTING: SWH, okay.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: H as in Henry.
MR. BUTING: And how would you say that if you are calling in a license number; what's your code for those letters?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: S, Sam, W, William, H, Henry.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And it also has the year of the vehicle, does it not?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does.
MR. BUTING: 1999?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: All right. So if you had this information ahead of time, would there be any reason for you to have to call into your department to ask them to identify the owner of SWH-582?
MR. KRATZ: Objection, Judge, calls for speculation, especially with this witness.
THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Now, you said you are not a blood pattern expert, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: But you have been to the academy and you have had training, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't think I have been to any academy.
MR. BUTING: I'm sorry, Fox Valley, you mentioned?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I went to evidence school there, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And have you ever been at any -- you have been at a number of crime scenes I assume, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Including ones where there are shootings?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I have not been to a shooting crime scene that I can remember.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But part of your evidence collection training, were you taught about how to collect evidence from the scene of a shooting?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I think it was more general. I don't think they specifically said this is what you do at a shooting scene.
MR. BUTING: Well, for instance, we looked at a number of these exhibits, No. 234 being -- First, I want to direct your attention to -- this one you said was of the west wall of the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: The wall right as you come in the door, the service door?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. Coming in the service door, it would be to your right.
MR. BUTING: And you mentioned that there's even -- this is even more cluttered with junk than it looks like here because it's really quite deep.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's hard to tell the depth in this photo, yes.
MR. BUTING: It really fills up probably 4 feet from the wall, or more?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would approximate 4 feet, sure.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Lots of items there. Also, Exhibit 233, which shows kind of part of the right -- that would be the southwest corner and then the southern wall of the garage, right.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You can't actually see the corner, but you can see stuff is piled all the way out that far?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And also the big John Deere tractor?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So there really was not very much open floor space in that garage when you walked in; isn't that true?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I guess approximately maybe -- do you want me to approximate the size of this space?
MR. BUTING: Well, we probably have it to the half inch on our computer animation, but why don't you just tell us what you think the overall interior size of the garage is?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Of the entire garage, it's a typical two car garage, you know. And then that west side is like a storage area where you have got 4 or 5 feet of storage inside your 2 car garage.
MR. BUTING: And the east bay of the garage was completely filled except for maybe a couple of feet behind the Suzuki Samurai, is that fair?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: You could walk around the Suzuki on all sides.
MR. BUTING: But the Suzuki largely filled up that west -- that east bay, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it filled up the east bay.
MR. BUTING: But the Suzuki, because it's a smaller SUV, there is -- was some space behind it --
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: -- that was open?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And then there's a snowmobile next to it in the west bay, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: In the center portion of the west bay, yes.
MR. BUTING: And then there's a tractor, so there's -- really, the only open space in that whole garage was sort of maybe 3 or 4 feet in the east bay, going back towards the rear?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, a portion of the east bay that wasn't taken up by the snowmobile was open.
MR. BUTING: And then right next to that open area is all of this clutter, many, many items, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: To the west of it, yes.
MR. BUTING: Many, many items that would be difficult to wipe clean of any blood spots, if there was any blood spatter, isn't that right?
MR. KRATZ: Objection, calls for speculation and he said he wasn't an expert in that field?
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Did you see any little spots of blood all over things?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Just on the floor.
MR. BUTING: Just on the floor. And those looked like drops, right, I mean, not like -- Well, strike that, you are not a blood spatter, I won't ask you.
Of course, if you had seen anything that looked like blood spots on any of the items surrounding that confined open area, you certainly would have made note of that, wouldn't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you did not make note of it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Let me ask you just briefly, after you were done with the garage, you went -- you and Remiker went around to the -- attempted to go around to the rear of the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm not positive on when, exactly, we did that, if it was before or after I take the burning barrels.
MR. BUTING: But it was sometime after the garage had been searched; is that your recollection?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct, we were finishing up the garage and we took a look around the outside along with the inside.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And you said that you were unable to approach because this dog was barking?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Barking and coming at us, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And you knew the dog would have to be removed in order to search that area?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And this is November 6th, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Let me move back to the prior day, November 5th.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: One of your duties was actually working with dog handlers, wasn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: In fact, you spent almost your entire duty at the Avery property on November 5th, going around with dog handlers?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And dogs?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And dog handlers are experts at handling dogs, right, to your knowledge?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would assume they are experts at handling their dogs.
MR. BUTING: All right. Did you ask any of those dog handlers to come and remove that dog from behind the rear of Mr. Avery's garage so you could search that area?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We actually -- That night, we came up that berm there, in the -- from the area that the cars were stored, with the dog handler. And the dog was on top and it was barking. And I don't remember if I decided, or if she decided, that she didn't want her dog being distracted by the other dog so we stayed away from that area.
MR. BUTING: You are talking about the previous night, now, November 5th, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That was the 5th, yeah.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So did you -- Knowing that and having seen that dog, behind Mr. Avery's garage on the 5th, did you make any effort to have one of these dog handlers, or someone else, remove the dog?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No. No.
MR. BUTING: How about the 6th, didn't do that either?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Absolutely not.
MR. BUTING: Let me move to the firearm shells for a moment. You testified here today that you, on November 6th, seized 10 or 11 shells, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You testified before in this case, though, haven't you, at a preliminary hearing?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You were under oath then, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Just as you are today?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Do you recall testifying on that occasion that you seized 10 shells?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Never said 10 or 11, did you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And, in fact, the item -- the exhibit that was shown to you, which is marked as Exhibit 250, this is the one that -- the bag that has the little pill box with shells in it, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And we had you count how many shells were in there, earlier, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Eleven is what you came up with?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You don't know how they got in this bag, these two glassine bags?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I don't.
MR. BUTING: But one has three and one has eight?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: If, in fact, you seized 10 shells from the garage and we have 11 in this pill box, how do you explain that, or can you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: In my report, I put that we took 10 shell casings from the garage. On the evidence sheet, I put 10 shell casings from the garage. When I reviewed the photos there were 11. I miscounted.
(Exhibit marked for identification.)
MR. BUTING: You said you reviewed the photos and you counted 11.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You told us earlier that you didn't take photos of all the shells; do you recall that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: Because some of them were under items and so you couldn't photograph them in their location.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You actually moved -- lifted up items in the garage, some of that junk in order to find some of those shells?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I didn't lift anything up. It would have been Lieutenant Lenk, Sergeant Remiker or -- Detective Remiker or Sergeant Colborn.
MR. BUTING: Okay. One of the four of you actually had to move some of that junk in order to find the shells; they were not all laying out in the open somewhere?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: They weren't all laying out in the open. I can't really testify to what they did. I don't know if it was inside of something or --
MR. BUTING: Okay.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: -- if it was underneath or what.
MR. BUTING: All right. But in any event, you don't have photographs that show 11 shells, do you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Just this photo here, Exhibit 220.
MR. BUTING: All right. Now, I'm showing you Exhibit 264, will you look at that for a moment and identify that.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the evidence property document that I filled out -- a copy of it that I filled out for, among other things, the .22 long rifle casings that we collected.
MR. BUTING: All right. And it has got these swabs of these garage stains, unknown stains, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: And it has also got item No. 11, it says 10 .22 LR empty casings from garage floor, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Now, underneath that is item 12?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: That says 1 .22 empty case?
MR. BUTING: What does it say?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 223 empty case.
MR. BUTING: Oh, so that's a completely different type of bullet or --
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Case.
MR. BUTING: -- shell?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's a Remington 223.
MR. BUTING: So that was -- that could not explain why there's 11; is that what you are telling me?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Right.
MR. BUTING: Couldn't be that those were mixed up?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not in the package, but I'm thinking that's where it got -- that it was mixed up that it's between 10 and another one, the 11. I think that's where it got mixed up, not the actual cases got mixed up, just the number of count.
MR. BUTING: Well, Exhibit 220, which you identified earlier as a box that has some -- do you know when that photograph was taken?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I don't.
MR. BUTING: Do you know whether that was before or after it went to the Crime Lab?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know when it was taken.
MR. BUTING: All right. So you didn't open it? I mean, this used to be, if this was evidence that was seized at the garage, I assume that it would have been in one of these nice little bags all sealed up with tape, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. Well, it was in the box, for sure, sealed -- the box was sealed. I don't remember if I put it in another.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So the box could have been a box like this, that was inside the paper bag that has a seal on it, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: But there's no tape on that particular box, that we can see, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, it's been opened.
MR. BUTING: That's what we're referring to, correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's the picture, yes.
MR. BUTING: And did you ever amend your report to indicate that there were 11 casings instead of 10?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I didn't.
MR. BUTING: Did you ever amend that property inventory sheet which we just marked as exhibit --
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: 264.
MR. BUTING: -- 264?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. BUTING: And, in fact, you came to the conclusion that, oh, maybe there really were 11 instead of 10, when somebody showed you this exhibit that's now on the screen; isn't that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Somebody else who had opened the evidence after you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know who opened the evidence.
MR. BUTING: Who showed you this photograph?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: District Attorney Kratz.
MR. BUTING: And that's when you determined that you had miscounted and that there were really 11 instead of 10, right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. This rifle, you indicated that you have some expertise of sorts because you are a -- work for the armory?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm the armorer for the county.
MR. BUTING: Okay. This item here that's the .22, marked as Exhibit 247; it's a pretty common firearm, wouldn't you say?
MR. BUTING: It's pretty cheap?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, relatively, I don't think too many guns are cheap any more.
MR. BUTING: Well, maybe between 100 and $200, something like that.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would have to look up what the price is.
MR. BUTING: Buy it at Wal-Mart, or places like that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I believe Wal-Mart stopped selling guns now. I don't know what they used to carry or do carry.
MR. BUTING: But it's the kind of gun that many people have?
MR. BUTING: Many. It's a standard cheap .22?
MR. BUTING: Used for hunting rabbits, things like that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Used for a lot of things, yes.
MR. BUTING: In fact, you found another one, very similar to that, on the Avery property; did you not?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I did.
MR. BUTING: And that one was also a Marlin Model 60SS .22 caliber, semi-automatic rifle, found in the -- you found a Marlin Model 60SS .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle in another residence?
MR. BUTING: Sort of next to a refrigerator?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I thought I heard you, the exact rifle, there are some differences between the rifles.
MR. BUTING: But they are similar?
MR. BUTING: Same class, certainly?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Same model.
MR. BUTING: Same model even. Okay. Do you remember where you got that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That was out of Charles Avery's residence.
MR. BUTING: Also known as Chuck?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Chuck, yes.
MR. BUTING: Did you test that rifle to see if it had been recently fired?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's beyond my scope of expertise.
MR. BUTING: Did you test this rifle --
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's beyond my --
MR. BUTING: -- from Mr. Avery's residence?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's beyond my scope of expertise.
MR. BUTING: Are you aware of whether anybody tested it, to see if it had been recently fired?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I'm not aware.
MR. BUTING: And you also found some .22 rifles in the Janda trailer right next to Mr. Avery, didn't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We found weapons in the Janda trailer; I don't remember exactly which ones were where. I seized quite a few weapons out of Chuck Avery's, Steven Avery's, the Janda's, shop building, vehicles that were there. But placing all the other ones, I don't know.
MR. BUTING: When you say weapons, these are basically hunting rifles?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Firearms.
MR. BUTING: Basically rifles?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Rifles, shotguns, pistols.
MR. BUTING: All right. But the majority appeared to be the kind people would use to hunt?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Some, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And the ammunition that you identified -- Do you still have that photograph up there, or did I take it away from you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I have Exhibit 246 of the .22 long rifle ammunition.
MR. BUTING: That's also very common ammunition, right?
MR. BUTING: It fits in any .22?
MR. BUTING: Any .22 long rifle?
MR. BUTING: And would have fit in any of those other .22 long rifles that you seized on the Avery general 40 acre property?
MR. BUTING: And the two rifles that are introduced here in court that are sitting over on this evidence table, the muzzleloader and the .22 long rifle; those are the only two firearms that you found in Mr. -- in the trailer in which Mr. Avery resided, right?
MR. BUTING: Do you know who owns that trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know who owns the trailer.
MR. BUTING: Do you know who owns those firearms?
MR. KRATZ: Objection, irrelevant, your Honor, possession not ownership.
MR. BUTING: Ownership goes to possession as well.
THE COURT: I will allow the question.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Do you know who owns --
THE COURT: There's a difference between determinative and relevance.
MR. KRATZ: Correct. Hearsay, Judge.
THE COURT: That's too early for that; the question is, if he knows.
MR. BUTING: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Do you know who owns those firearms?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would have to assume; I don't know.
MR. BUTING: You don't know?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. BUTING: You are assuming just because you found them in that trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I assume Steven Avery owns them because they were found in his bedroom, because the one has tape on it that says the name Steve.
MR. BUTING: Tape on it, kind of like a neon sign, right here, Steve, right?
MR. BUTING: Pretty obvious, isn't it?
MR. BUTING: Thank you. That's all I have.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. KRATZ: Not of this witness, Judge, thank you.
THE COURT: All right. The witness is excused.
MR. BUTING: I would move -- No, I'm not moving it yet, sorry.
THE COURT: Okay. It's 10 to 12, I don't know if it pays to get into another witness at this time.
MR. BUTING: I would -- I'm sorry, your Honor, but the property inventory sheet up there, I would move that into evidence; the other two photographs, I'm withholding for the moment.
THE COURT: 264?
MR. BUTING: 264.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. KRATZ: No, Judge. But I -- I wanted to remind the Court there was maybe something before lunch that we might want to put on the record unless we were going to do that after.
THE COURT: I don't remember if it was before or after; I thought it was after. Maybe I'm mistaken. Does either party have anything they wish to put on the record, outside the presence of the jury, before lunch.
MR. BUTING: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: I'm going to take that as a no for now.
MR. KRATZ: Other than there would be something right after lunch.
THE COURT: Yes. All right. Members of the jury, we were going to take our lunch break a few minutes early today. I will remind you not to discuss the case among yourselves in any fashion during the lunch break.
There may be an item we have to take up outside of the jury's presence immediately after lunch, so I can't promise you exactly when we'll be resuming. But we'll let you know as soon as we're ready. You are excused for lunch at this time.
(Jury not present.)
THE COURT: You may be seated. Counsel, I'm going to ask you to report back to chambers a little before 1:00, to let me know what your plans are after lunch.
MR. KRATZ: That's fine, thank you.
THE COURT: All right.
(Noon recess taken.)
(Jury not present.)