2.Thomas Sturdivant — Direct/Cross
517 linesMR. FALLON: Um, yes, Your Honor. Um, the State would call, uh, to commence testimony today, Special Agent Tom Sturdivant.
THOMAS STURDIVANT, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Thomas Allen Sturdivant, S-t-u-r-d-i-v-a-n-t.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY FALLON:
MR. FALLON: What do you do for a living?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm a special agent with the Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation.
MR. FALLON: How long have you been employed with the Department of Justice?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Since November of 1998.
MR. FALLON: What is your current assignment?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I am currently assigned to the Narcotics Bureau.
MR. FALLON: And how long have you held that assignment?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Approximately two years now.
MR. FALLON: And where are you based?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm based out of Wausau.
MR. FALLON: Prior to receiving a narcotics assignment, what else -- what other assignments have you held in the employ of the Department of Justice?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I worked in the Arson Bureau, as well as the Financial Crimes Bureau.
MR. FALLON: Prior to joining the Wisconsin Department of Justice, had you had other law enforcement experience?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. I was -- I worked in the Maine State Police from 1998 -- I'm sorry -- 1988 until 1998.
MR. FALLON: And that is the state of Maine?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. FALLON: And what did you do for them?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was a uniformed trooper for approximately seven years and a detective for three years.
MR. FALLON: Generally, what kinds of cases did you investigate for the, uh, Wisconsin State Patrol in Maine?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The Maine State Police. I investigated a variety of things from basic line patrol duties, uh, traffic accidents, to investigating, uh, organized crime.
MR. FALLON: Agent Sturdivant, were you called upon to assist other law enforcement entities in the investigation of the, uh, death of Teresa Halbach?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was.
MR. FALLON: How did you become involved?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: On November 8, 2005, I assisted with executing a search warrant at the Avery business, and later that afternoon I also assisted in looking at, um, areas of interest that were marked by search teams.
MR. FALLON: All right. What types of, uh -- or what -- what -- what -- Excuse me. What were some of the areas of interest that you, um, investigated further?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: During that day, we looked at vehicles, we looked at earthen piles, we looked at things that were marked by flags that might have been discovered by the State Patrol, or we were just looking at things to determine if they had any evidentiary value.
MR. FALLON: Directing your attention, then, to the afternoon of November 8, approximately 1:30 in that afternoon, did you have, uh, occasion to, um, meet with a Manitowoc County Sheriff's Officer by the name of Jason Jost?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did.
MR. FALLON: Tell us about that encounter.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Prior to that, we were at the command post and we were asked to go out and take a look at a variety of, uh, different things; the earthen piles, the vehicles, and so forth. And, along the way, um, we came across Jason Jost who was standing in front of a red flag that had marked an item on the ground.
MR. FALLON: And where was that particular item marked?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That item was, uh, located behind Steven Avery's garage and south of the earthen pile, uh, behind the garage, approximately 80 feet from the so-called burn pit.
MR. FALLON: And we're going to show you, um, a photograph. I believe it's been received as Exhibit 86. Directing your atten -- uh, attention to Exhibit 86, we're zooming in on what has previously been identified as the, uh, portion of the property attributed to Mr. Avery.
Um, directing your attention, then, to Exhibit 86, does that assist you in illustrating where your attention was drawn to by, uh, Deputy Jost?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it does.
MR. FALLON: All right. Would you, with the laser pointer, indicate, uh, where you and Deputy Jost were, uh -- where your attention was drawn to?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: If this is -- this -- this is the earthen pile here, we were standing just beyond it about, uh, eight feet, um, beyond that earthen pile.
MR. FALLON: Would the record reflect the, uh, witness has indicated with the laser pointer, uh, a direction a few feet, apparently, uh, eight feet south of the pile, which would be the top of the picture, uh, as zoomed in here on Exhibit 86?
THE COURT: Does the defense agree?
MR. STRANG: I don't have any quarrel. It's up to the jury in the end.
THE COURT: All right. Uh, the record will so reflect.
MR. FALLON: Thank you.
MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) After Deputy Jost do -- drew your attention to this particular, um, matter, um, first of all, could you describe a little more fully what you and he were looking at at that point?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Excuse me. Deputy Jost was standing in front of what appeared to be, in my opinion, a piece of bone fragment. It was approximately one inch in length. And, um, my opinion was, and I think we kind of agreed, that it was a, uh -- a -- a piece of bone fragment. And after looking at that, I looked at this so-called burn pit at the end of that pile of gravel and also noticed other -- what in my opinion were bone fragments, um, that were obvious, uh, around that, uh, pile of debris.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, I'd like to, uh, show you some exhibits now. While we retrieve one exhibit already introduced, I'm going to have Agent Fassbender provide some additional photos for your examination.
First of all, though, before we look at those photos, I'd like to direct your attention to Exhibit No. 50 as, um -- as portrayed on the scene. Do you recognize that particular area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: Is that a photograph of how the burn area looked when, uh, you first, um, began to inspect it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. FALLON: All right. And I note that there is a, uh, German Shepherd, uh, prominently featured in the center of this photograph?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct. It was a large, uh, in my opinion, intimidating, big German Shepherd that stood on top of that pile.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, was that, uh, German Shepherd there when you first approached the area to, uh, examine the article found by Deputy Jost?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, he was.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, you indicated the dog was large and intimidating. Could you elaborate on that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: As you walked towards the mound of dirt, the dog would come out and, um -- and, at times, um, aggressively, um, charge towards the people that were walking towards the earthen pile.
MR. FALLON: All right. Um, I believe we have some additional photographs in front of you? So would you take the first one on the pile, uh, turn it over, and tell us what exhibit number that is?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Exhibit 363.
MR. FALLON: All right. And do you recognize Exhibit 363?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do.
MR. FALLON: And what is Exhibit 363?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It is a picture of -- of the dog, the earthen pile, and this is a pile of, uh, sand, rock, and stone that stood probably a, uh, foot to two feet above the grass where the natural landscape.
Um, and the left -- or the low left-hand corner of this, you can see in part of the burn pit, um, can see the hammer that was, uh -- was at the site as well, as well as the burned out frame -- uh, what appeared to me a metal frame seat from a motor vehicle, and lots of steel-belted, uh, wire from what I thought were -- were -- were steel-belted tires.
MR. FALLON: Very well. I'm going to have, um, uh -- go back to Exhibit No. 50, and, um, see if we can get a perspective that I'd like you to identify.
Again, looking at Exhibit 50, can you indicate with your laser pointer the approximate location of the first bone that you and Deputy Jost, um, examined?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The first -- the first bone is approximately out here. It's about eight feet, as I estimated, from the beginning of the burn pit.
MR. FALLON: All right. So it would be in -- in -- what is in our picture here, would be in the -- the front foreground of the picture?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. It would actually be in the grassy area away from the burn pit.
MR. FALLON: And that would be, uh -- So as you indicated with your pointer, the, uh, lower right-hand corner of the photograph?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. FALLON: Thank you. All right. Uh, again, and, um, to, uh, direct your attention to the next, uh, photograph, uh, which has been -- The photographs have been presented to you there. What's the, uh -- the next photograph that, uh, you have?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Exhibit 364.
MR. FALLON: All right. And what is Exhibit 364?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Exhibit 364 is a -- just a different angle, um, of the earthen burn, if you will. Um, you can see the doghouse within that, um, and you can see the metal seat, the burned out metal seat, um, metal frame of the vehicle seat if -- in my opinion.
MR. FALLON: All right.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Um, and you can see the -- you can see the pile. This is the pile of sand and gravel that stood above the landscape, and the doghouse.
MR. FALLON: All right. And there's also a propane tank prominently featured in this photograph?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, uh, the next photograph?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Next exhibit is, uh, 365.
MR. FALLON: Do you recognize Exhibit 365?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do.
MR. FALLON: Okay. And Exhibit 365 is what?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Exhibit 365, um, represents what I initially saw. Um, the bone was out here that I initially looked at. I looked at the burn pit, walked over, this is where I saw charred debris to include what I believed to be, um, bone fragments, a shovel, um, the large dog, a seat, a -- a tire out here, lots of, um -- in my opinion, lots of, um, steel belts from burned tires.
I believe there was a hammer in here, but, uh, this -- this is -- would be the debris that I focused on right here.
MR. FALLON: Uh, does that -- uh, again, does that picture, as does, uh, the last exhibit, truly and accurately portray the scene before any, uh, further investigation took place?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it does.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, um, you began to describe -- And I think we may have interrupted you. Can you estimate for us the approximate size of the area where the burn is, itself, in terms of its, uh, dimensions?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I estimated this pile of dirt to be 30 feet by 30 feet. It was easily the width of this garage, and I estimated it to be about 30 feet in length.
In the center of this pit -- We'll consider this the bottom of the south side, if you will, is a burn pit right here. Was a -- I described that as being six feet in rectangular shape. It appeared to me as though somebody had taken a, um -- some sort of a construction vehicle with a front end loader on it, and gone in there and taken approximately six feet of that out and created a concave area that looked just like a -- a -- a pit.
Um, so it was, again, about six feet wide, looked like somebody had taken a big shovel from a bobcat or a front end loader and scooped out dirt, and removed it, and -- and, um, dumped it elsewhere.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, I note in the -- in the far background of this picture, we're going to zoom in, um, is there a vehicle depicted there?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, there is.
MR. FALLON: All right. And was that vehicle, uh, in the area as well?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do not recall.
MR. FALLON: Okay. All right. Next photograph, please?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Next Exhibit is 366.
MR. FALLON: What is Exhibit 366?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Again, this, uh, depicts the, uh -- a portion of the, um, pile of dirt, as well as, um, I believe to be that -- uh, Steven Avery's trailer, the, uh, propane tank and a portion of the, uh, detached, uh, two-car garage.
MR. FALLON: And, uh, in -- in the foreground in front of the garage is a red box-like item? What is that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. That would be the doghouse.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, again, is that, generally, the layout of the scene and the burn area of -- uh, when you came upon the scene, on Tuesday afternoon, November 8?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it is.
MR. FALLON: All right. Very well. Um -- All right. Let's talk, uh, again, about what you did after you and Deputy Jost examined this particular, um, um, bone fragment? What did you do?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: After looking at the bone fragment, I then walked towards this burn pit. So I walked from the bone -- from the, uh -- the piece of bone fragment out here to the burn pit. I looked at the burn pit. I observed what I thought were other bone fragments in and around that burn pit. I picked up a twig. I moved some leaves and other things, and I could see other bone fragments within that -- within the charred debris. Um, I noticed what I believed to be, uh, skull fragments, uh, in that debris and intertwined within the steel-belted tires.
Um, aside from that, I didn't do much with that burn pit. Um, at that point we were trying to, uh, uh, get in contact with the, uh -- the, uh, folks from the Crime Lab, as well as some of our arson folks.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, uh, were you able to, uh, get a hold of anyone in the Arson Bureau, uh, that particular afternoon?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Myself and another agent were, uh, trying to contact, uh, the arson folks. I spoke with Kevin Heimerl. I believe Deb Straus -- Straus spoke with the -- I think, uh, Special Agent Fassbender, as well as one of our other arson agents that happened to be, um, working the investigation.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, you mentioned something about the Crime Lab? Tell us about their involvement if any?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Um, and we -- we attempted, um, to get those folks to the, uh -- to the scene. I understood that the Crime Lab was busy retrieving or collecting other, um, evidence from burn barrels and so forth, so that they would not be available for a bit. Um, the arson agents that we spoke with were also busy, um, with other, um, investigative activities, uh, so we, uh -- we waited for the, uh, Crime Lab to, uh, show up.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, at approximately three p.m., were you assisted by members of the Crime Lab?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. Uh, I don't have the exact time, but at some point later on, um, in the afternoon, the Crime Lab did show up. Um, I believe it was John Ertl, Guang Zhang, um, and Chuck Cates who arrived with a van and set up a sifting apparatus, a large sifting apparatus, on a tripod that required two and three people to assemble it.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, after they came with their equipment -- Well, first of all, before they came with their equipment, were -- were there -- was there anything removed, or any shovels taken to that pit, anything disturbed in the fire pit area, before the arrival of the Crime Lab, by yourself or any other law enforcement officer in your presence?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Nothing was introduced, um, between the time that we discovered the pit and the time that the Crime Lab arrived. We did not have proper equipment, gloves or, uh, proper clothing to, uh -- to, uh, process that.
MR. FALLON: Did the Crime Lab provide the necessary equipment to begin processing?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: They did.
MR. FALLON: In addition to, um -- Tell us about the sifting apparatus?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, the sifting apparatus is a large tripod that has these large, I think they're maybe three foot in length, a couple of feet wide, different strains of different sizes so the debris, as you -- as you moved it around, certain things would fall through, certain things would remain above.
And so as -- After setting that up and -- and getting it all set up, we then took the debris from that debris pile, put it on top or shoveled it on top of these screens as in sifted through it, and, again, the small particles would fall through, the large ones would remain.
There were two different types of strains. And we picked out what we thought were bone fragments. Um, other things to include metal grommets, as well as a, uh, zipper. And all of those items that -- Again, we -- I'm not an anthropologist. I'm not trained in that field. We picked out things that we thought might be bone fragments, to include teeth, and placed them in a box which was then, um, taken by the Crime Lab.
MR. FALLON: I'm going to have an exhibit marked, for your, uh, examination, by Investigator Wiegert.
(Exhibit No. 373 marked for identification.)
MR. FALLON: Want to -- Would you show Counsel, please?
MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) I'm showing you what has been marked for identification purposes as Exhibit 360 --
COURT CLERK: Three hundred seventy-three.
MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) -- 373. Sorry. Do you recognize that particular item?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do. It's the, uh -- the zipper that was retrieved from the debris as we sifted through it and placed in a larger box.
MR. FALLON: All right. Very well. I'm -- I'm going to have you place that back in the box and have, uh, Investigator Wiegert put it on the, uh, ELMO for projection.
MR. FALLON: Leave it in the box unless you don't think it will portray. Could you zoom and adjust that light for us, Investigator? Little out of focus. You'll have to zoom out. Very good.
MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) Is, uh, portrayed on this, uh, screen now for the benefit of our jurors, is that the, uh -- the piece of zipper that you, uh, discovered?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it is.
MR. FALLON: Thank you. In your examination of that zipper, did you notice any markings on that zipper?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. There were three letters on the zipper.
MR. FALLON: And do you recall those letters?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I don't recall them, no.
MR. FALLON: I'll have the Investigator show you the exhibit. Would a pair of reading glasses assist you?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: They -- they might. Thank you.
MR. FALLON: Age is a terrible thing, isn't it?
MR. STRANG: It's better than the alternative.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The letters are Y, K, K.
MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) Thank you. Approximately how long did this, uh, sifting, um, process, uh, take?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The sifting process went on until, uh, just about dark. Um, because of the darkness we were, um, moving along, um, rapidly, trying to get -- we were trying to retrieve, um, as much of the bones that we could recognize and get those things to the Crime Lab for examination.
MR. FALLON: All right. And why was that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, at this point in time, quite frankly, we don't know if Teresa Halbach is alive or dead. So I had made the decision that we need to get these bones, um, off to the Crime Lab to determine whether or not these bones were human bones and belonged to Teresa Halbach.
MR. FALLON: And, um, generally, how did you and, uh, Mr. Ertl, and, uh, Mr. Zhang, and Mr. Cates, and I think you were -- said you were assisted by Agent Straus?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. In terms of the sifting?
MR. FALLON: Yes.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The sifting involved, uh, John Ertl, Chuck Cates, and -- and, uh, uh, Guang Zhang from the Crime Lab, myself and -- and Deputy, uh, Jason Jost.
MR. FALLON: Okay. And, um, how did the, um -- how was the material taken from the pit and brought to the, um, sifting apparatus?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: We set up the tripod. The tripod was, uh, just a short ways from the burn pit, if you will. Um, might have been, uh, maybe six feet from the burn pit. So you've got this tripod device set up, you've got these long, um -- elongated sifting devices that were supported by -- by, uh, chains, and beneath that we put a brown tarp.
John Ertl, or someone else from the Crime Lab, took the shovelful of debris up, placed it on top of the sifter. As we spread it out with our -- with our hands and with our gloves, and we sifted through it and picked out those things that we felt were either bones, in some cases the metal grommets, and the, uh -- the zipper that, uh -- that we could discern, uh, from -- from the pile of debris.
Other things -- you know, things that fell through were placed on -- or fell to the tarp. Um, the debris that could not fall through was picked up and then dumped on that tarp. So everything that we sifted was collected on top of that tarp.
Other things like, uh, maybe a seat belt, a metal seat belt fastener was -- was left there, a hacksaw blade, other things that came out of that debris, to include the, uh -- the steel-belted, uh, uh, metal from the tires, that was left there as well.
Um, so we -- we always sifted those things that fit on the shovel, um, and the things that we took out of that were placed in a large box that the Crime Lab -- Crime Lab had and took with them.
So we did it relatively fast due to the, uh, darkness, uh, impending darkness, and, um -- and -- and -- and, again, carefully picked the stuff up, put it on top of the, uh -- the sifters, and sifted through it, and picked out what we thought, was, uh, bone material and other items of interest.
MR. FALLON: What did you do with the material that was left on the tarp?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The material that was left on the tarp was picked up, collected, folded inside the tarp. There was another tarp placed over it, and then we double-bagged it and placed it inside a locked van at the crime scene. It was basically turned over to -- to, uh, Deputy, uh, Rick, uh, um, Riemer from the, uh, Calumet County Sheriff's Department.
MR. FALLON: What did you do with the, um -- the -- the, um, burn pit area, itself, uh, when it became too dark to continue the processing?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: We -- we examined the scene and removed the stuff down -- down to the ground surface. We did not dig in the ground. We left, um, other items that we found there, the shovel, and the hammer, the hacksaw blade, the screw driver, um, the seat belt fastener, the burned out frame, the tire, and other things were left at the scene. The scene was covered with a tarp.
And my decision was, if this turned out to be Teresa Halbach, and we -- and we called Special Agent Fassbender, that we should then come back and more thoroughly examine this scene. But our intention at that point in time were to determine whether or not Teresa Halbach was alive or dead at that point in time, and that's why it was important to me just to get those bones off to the Crime Lab to see if -- if, in fact, that, uh, we discovered Teresa Halbach.
MR. FALLON: All right. Did you have any other concerns regarding, um, the evidence, or the weather, or anything else that factored into your decision-making that afternoon?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, um, part of that, uh, you know -- I mean, the bones could have been carried off by animals, there were a lot of things that could have happened, to include rain or other in climate weather. I didn't know the forecast at the time. Um, but, uh, we -- we -- we did make some preparations to cover the -- the, uh, burn pit, um, and pick up as many bones as we could to prevent, the -- you know, the loss or -- or being carried off by an animal. Um, so that was, uh, that -- that's what I did.
MR. FALLON: All right. I think you can remove your gloves. I'm sure they're getting a little uncomfortable at this point.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Didn't know if there was other evidence or not.
MR. FALLON: Um, if you would, uh, examine, again, the remainder of the photographs in front of you, what's the -- the next photograph on the list?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yeah. That would be Exhibit 367.
MR. FALLON: All right. And what is Exhibit 367, please?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is the hammer that was, uh, um, beside the burn pit. Um, that, um, was sitting, um, up on the ridge. If you're facing the burn pit, up on the right-hand side.
MR. FALLON: In the gravel portion?
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, what's the next photograph?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The next exhibit is, uh, 368.
MR. FALLON: And what is Exhibit 368?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's the, uh, screwdriver that was also, uh, located in the pit.
MR. FALLON: Was that actually in the burn area, itself, or was that in the surrounding gravel?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe this was down inside the pit.
MR. FALLON: And what is the next item?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Uh, a masonry trowel or a little pull, if you will. And this was also, uh, in the, uh, burn pit area.
MR. FALLON: And that is Exhibit 3 --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm sorry. Exhibit 369.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, finally, what else do you have there?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I got Exhibit 370 and 371. Exhibit 370, that's the, uh -- the spade or shovel that was sitting on top of the, uh, dirt and sand just to the left of the burn pit.
MR. FALLON: All right.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: And the final exhibit I have is 371, and that is a picture of the -- in my opinion, a -- a metal frame of a, uh, seat from a motor vehicle. Um, this was the seat that was seated -- If you're looking at the pit, to the right of the pit, um, with, uh, a -- a tire and some other -- other debris, to include the, uh -- more metal from, uh, steel-belted tires.
MR. FALLON: All right. Um, and, finally, I'm going to redirect your attention, I guess, back to, uh, Exhibit No. 50, uh, which is one of the first photographs. You don't have that in front of you.
But, um -- Now, if we could, um, I believe in Exhibit, uh, 50 there is a shovel, which is depicted, uh, right there. Is that the, uh, shovel that we just saw a picture of?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. FALLON: All right. Very well. And, uh, in terms of the, um -- I believe you have an exhibit in front of you, uh, a photograph, uh, with the hammer and its location?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. The hammer would have been located approximately right here to the right of the pit on -- on the, um, top of the mound.
MR. FALLON: All right. And now we have zoomed in on Exhibit No. 50. Is that the, uh, hammer that we've just examined in an evidence photo?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. FALLON: Very well.
MR. FALLON: I have no further questions for the witness. Subject to cross, I would move into evidence the exhibits that we've marked and identified during Agent Sturdivant's testimony.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. STRANG: Uh, no objection to any of the exhibits, which I think are 363 through 371, and then, numbers 373.
THE COURT: Very well. Those, um, exhibits are admitted. Um, Mr. Strang?
MR. STRANG: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY STRANG:
MR. STRANG: Good morning.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Morning, sir.
MR. STRANG: How many days were you out at the Avery property?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was out there, uh, one day, fully, and then just, uh, partially for, um, a -- a morning.
MR. STRANG: The 8th was the full day out there?
MR. STRANG: November 10 was the other day?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe so.
MR. STRANG: You were gone in between for court obligations or something?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. STRANG: How many, uh, sites did -- did you see while you were at the Avery property at which you found actual or suspected human bone fragment?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Just one.
MR. STRANG: The one you've described here?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: Now, this site, though, uh, the first fragment that you saw, uh, was next to a red flag?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: The red flag was next to a sheriff's deputy?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: The sheriff's deputy was Jason Jost or Jost?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: From Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir. Correct.
MR. STRANG: That red flag and Deputy Jost were about eight feet south of the burn pit or the burn area you've described?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: Eight feet south onto grass?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: There did not appear to be burnt ground or burnt grass in the area of that first bone fragment?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: There was not.
MR. STRANG: Didn't look like it had been used as a burn area?
MR. STRANG: Did the, uh, dog leash, so far as you know, extend that far south to the, uh -- to the red flag of the bone fragment?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It did not, to the best of my knowledge.
MR. STRANG: While we're at it, um, the dog we saw in the picture, did he or she stay there the entire time you folks were sifting and going through this burn pit?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. It's my recollection that the dog was removed, I believe, prior to the sifting. So I thought the dog was removed at some time between, uh, the time that we contacted the Crime Lab and the time that we began our sifting.
MR. STRANG: And that was a matter of asking an officer to come and remove the dog?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm not certain who did that, but I believe the dog was removed by -- could have been the animal control officer.
MR. STRANG: Okay. That was a matter of just simply making a phone call and getting somebody to do it?
MR. STRANG: You had some prior experience as an arson investigator with -- with our Crime Lab?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I had never worked with the Crime Lab at a crime scene prior to that.
MR. STRANG: I'm sorry. I -- I --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I misunderstood the question, perhaps, but --
MR. STRANG: I may have misunderstood the testimony. I thought -- I thought I had understood you to say that you had experience as an arson investigator prior to November 8, 2005?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did, but I never used the services of the Crime Lab or the Field Team.
MR. STRANG: My mistake. My mistake. I'm -- I said Crime Lab. What I meant was DCI, Division of Criminal Investigation.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: Same Wisconsin Department of Justice, two different entities within the Wisconsin Department of Justice; right?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: Crime Lab, what we'll -- we will call DCI, the Division of Criminal Investigation?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: All right. My mistake. You're with DCI?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: The Crime Lab people help process more challenging scenes?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: Uh, your work, though, with DCI had -- it had included a stint as an arson investigator?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: Had you ever dealt with what -- what's called a body cremation or a suspected body cremation site before this one?
MR. STRANG: On how many occasions if you remember?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Uh, maybe three or four different occasions. Not to this extent, though.
MR. STRANG: Okay. And I -- and when -- when I say "body cremation" I mean the distinguishing those from what you'd -- what I -- I would call an arson site. Are you also drawing a distinction?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I would -- I would draw the distinction between we talking about charred remains or somewhat decomposed bodies from fire scenes?
MR. STRANG: Right. And let's develop that. I want to develop that with you just a little bit more, all right?
MR. STRANG: An -- an arson scene, uh, sometimes, unfortunately, will -- will involve one or more human fatalities?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: In your experience with an arson scene, what has happened is either you suspect, or someone actually has, set fire deliberately to some structure or property?
MR. STRANG: In your experience, as an arson investigator, sometimes a murder has occurred in the structure or at the scene and fire is set to try to dis -- disguise the murder?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: In other situations, the fire is set and someone inside the property perishes in the fire?
MR. STRANG: Whether intended by the arsonist or not?
MR. STRANG: What is common to arson scenes involving a fatality, in your experience, is that, typically, if there's a death, that body simply lies where it falls, so to speak?
MR. STRANG: Uh, the -- the person may have died before a fire was set, but the arsonist has set the fire and left?
MR. STRANG: Or if the arsonist has started the fire and somebody's unfortunate enough to be in the building, or not be able to get out, the person falls where the smoke or the flames overcome them?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: As well, correct.
MR. STRANG: Uh, so, typically, in an arson scene that would involve the recovery of charred human remains, those remains, again, typically, in your experience, simply are -- are in place and have not been tampered with unless firefighting personnel inadvertently have disturbed that scene?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: There is typically a body or a -- somewhat of a, um, um, body remain because, typically, that body remains on a surface and is protected. In this case, um -- I'm sorry. And -- and, you know, in the arson scenes I've been in, if the body remains on a surface, the body is somewhat protected, um, so that there is a -- there is, um, somewhat, uh -- or often a -- a -- could be a complete body, could be a partially decomposed body.
MR. STRANG: Sure. And in this -- I -- I don't mean to be unnecessarily in a cob here, uh, this morning, but, um, it -- when you say "protected", there may be fallen debris or other materials from the burnt property that are atop the body.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Typically, whatever the body is lying on, or if there's something lying on the body, that body will be protected. There will be a body. My experience, of all the arsons I've been to, that body is always protected on at least one side, and you will see -- or have a body or a partially decomposed body.
MR. STRANG: Right. Not something that's been re -- reduced entirely to charred bone?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: So when you say "protected", you'll have tissue on at least one side of the body?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Tissue, clothing, whatever's protected.
MR. STRANG: Sure. Because, for example, if someone falls facedown on the floor, uh, the -- the -- the thermal injury, the heating, has no access to, then -- to the -- what would be the front side of my body if I'm lying facedown on the floor?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: Uh, and, again, barring inadvertent disturbing of -- of that scene by firefighting efforts, um, you would expect the -- the body or the remains, essentially, to be contained within the area in which the person fell or laid?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: For the most part, yes.
MR. STRANG: That's your experience --
MR. STRANG: -- for the most part in arson investigations? Now, cremation, on the other hand -- And let's -- let's make clear that we're talking about illegal cremation. We're not talking about the proper disposal of a -- of a dead body. But a cremation scene is different in a number of ways. One of those is that cremation, as you understand it, typically involves the intentional effort to disguise a dead body?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm not an expert in cremation, um, um, so it -- it's -- it's hard for me to say what actually goes on with a cremation, but, um, you know, yes.
MR. STRANG: Cremation sites you've seen, in other words, uh, you've understood, in your experience, to involve someone's effort to conceal or destroy a human body?
MR. FALLON: Your Honor, I'm going to, uh, ask -- I have an objection. It might be just a brief foundation question, but it's not clear to me exactly how many cremation sites as opposed to arson sites he's been to, and what their condition was before those questions can be elicited.
MR. STRANG: I -- I did ask. I'm happy to ask again and develop that a little further.
MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) Maybe for Mr. Fallon's benefit you can repeat the answer about the number of cremation sites?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Based on your, um -- what you're saying, I would -- I would say that I've been to two cremation sites. One being the Teresa Halbach site, as well as another one.
MR. STRANG: Okay. And was the other one previous?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The other one was previous, which also involved sifting.
MR. STRANG: All right. And, uh, was that an outdoor site as well?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. That was a vehicle, uh, scene. Body was inside a motor vehicle.
MR. STRANG: All right. Um, but you viewed it as a cremation site because you concluded that a deliberate effort had been made to destroy a body by fire or heat?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I didn't consider it a cremation. I guess I considered it at the, uh -- the fire scene. So...
MR. STRANG: Okay.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Not being an expert in cremation.
MR. STRANG: No. No. And I -- And I'm not suggesting you are an expert in cremation. I'm just trying to distinguish --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Right.
MR. STRANG: -- sort of a typical arson scene as you understand it, where there may be a fatality from a cremation sense.
MR. STRANG: A -- another distinction you made -- or you make -- I think you suggested in discussing the arson scene, where, uh, in the arson scene, there -- there ordinarily would be at least one protected side or area of the body. In a cremation scene, the purpose is, uh, that -- that the body not be protected and an effort made to reduce the body to charred remains all the way around?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Not necessarily effort, but just the way the body's positioned and elevated, for instance, under the motor vehicle seat.
MR. STRANG: That could happen?
MR. STRANG: Um, and if the, um -- if the attempt in cremation is to disguise or conceal the fact of the death or the existence of the body, you may see someone, then, disturbing the remains during or after the fire?
MR. STRANG: Now, here, uh, you described for us the bone fragment found eight feet, roughly, to the south of the pit?
MR. STRANG: During the course of the day, day-and-a-half, whatever it is, that you were involved in sifting, uh, you also found suspected bone fragments to the east of the burn area you described?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm not certain what you're speaking of. Within the pit or outside the pit?
MR. STRANG: Let's go back, if we could, to Exhibit 50. Is that possible? I have Exhibit 50 up?
MR. STRANG: Did you find fragments, uh, to the east, which would be to the right in this photograph?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: This would be east, correct? Okay. The bone fragment -- One was out here. There were bone fragments intertwined in the steel belts, um --
MR. STRANG: Now, those belts are hard to see, um, but I think the material you're referring to as -- as belts almost looks like a -- a tumbleweed or a bramble bush or something?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Exactly.
MR. STRANG: Down in the --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Crater.
MR. STRANG: Exactly. All right. Those -- You've seen burned tires before?
MR. STRANG: And recognize the unraveling of the steel-belted radial?
MR. STRANG: In heat. All right. And so you had bone fragments to the east of the burn area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The bone fragments were concentrated within the pit, but there were some bone fragments intertwined within the steel belts, and I -- so the -- the -- the bulk of -- of the debris, or bone fragments, were located within the pit.
MR. STRANG: Sort of in a pile, in effect?
MR. STRANG: Did you find any fragments -- I understand that's where the bulk were. Did you find any fragments to the west of the burn area or the pit?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The -- the bone fragments I concentrated on, and there could have been others, but the bone fragments that we concentrated on were the bone fragments located in the pit.
MR. STRANG: So whether -- whether other officers picked up fragments outside the immediate pit area and tagged them separately, you don't know one way or other?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I don't know. I know that the scene was reprocessed again, and that's when they could have picked up those other bone fragments.
MR. STRANG: All right. Um, what is clear to you, or was clear to you, when you were there on November 8, is that the -- the area that appeared, uh, to have been used for burning seemed to be in what you're calling the pit?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: The pit, actually, appears to be more or less at grade with the surrounding yard or lawn; correct?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is correct.
MR. STRANG: And then it looks like, uh, some dirt and -- or gravel, uh -- doesn't look like topsoil, necessarily, but dirt and gravel, rocks, at some point were piled atop the yard or the grass?
MR. STRANG: So that -- so the dirt is what's elevated, and what you're calling the pit is actually simply at yard level?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: But burned on the bottom?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. And there's some burning along the sides as well.
MR. STRANG: Signs of some heat?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: All right. Now, the, uh -- You mentioned a propane tank in one of these pictures. There was no feed from the propane tank to this entire burn area that you saw?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Not to my knowledge, no.
MR. STRANG: The propane tank you understood to be for home utilities and the trailer?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That would be my guess.
MR. STRANG: Well, actually, more than a guess. You did not see anything that looked like a -- a propane feed --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did not.
MR. STRANG: -- heat source to the burn area?
MR. STRANG: Now, the, um -- You've learned that it was about 9:15 in the morning on November 8 that Manitowoc Deputy Jost first alerted someone, Mr. Fassbender or someone, at the, uh, site to this possible bone fragment?
MR. FALLON: Objection. That's incorrect statement of the testimony. 9:15?
MR. STRANG: I -- I don't think it is a statement of the testimony.
MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) Um, is that -- is that something you learned?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Absolutely not. I have no information on that.
MR. STRANG: When it happened?
MR. STRANG: Okay. What you know is that you got to the Avery property, in general, about eight in the morning on November 8?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I think so. I'm not sure.
MR. STRANG: And give or take, uh, to this burn area at about 1:30?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. My first duty was to conduct a search warrant. I was standing around the command post with myself, uh, Special Agent Deb Straus, and uh, our supervisor, Pete Thielen (phonetic), who was -- was, uh, requested to go out and take a look at different things that had been discovered.
MR. STRANG: Sure. And, obviously, then, you have no way of knowing at all who had been near this general area described in Exhibit 50 for the three days or so preceding November 8 at about 1:30 in the afternoon?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I had no prior information with respect to that until I arrived, um, on scene.
MR. STRANG: Fair enough. Now, um, you mentioned in -- in passing, um -- I'm going to go back to it just so people didn't miss it, you -- you very candidly told the jury, briefly, that you're not an anthropologist?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: Uh, an anthropologist, you understand, to be a scientist engaged in the study of the behavior and culture of human beings, generally?
MR. STRANG: Neither are you an archaeologist, meaning a subspecialty within the field of anthropology?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: Archaeologists would be concerned with, among other things, the, uh, preservation and recovery of burial sites?
MR. STRANG: This is not something in which you have any expertise at all?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Absolutely none.
MR. STRANG: All right. Um, neither have you had any training in human skeletal anatomy?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: None.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Uh, so what you -- what you did, and I want to get into the -- And you call this a recovery?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: If you'd like, yes.
MR. STRANG: Is that -- or do you have a -- a term you'd prefer?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No, that's fine.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Uh, so let -- let's get into the recovery efforts on the afternoon of November 8. You get there at about 1:30, and from that time on you're at least in the area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: Here? Um, but before doing anything, you want the Crime Lab folks?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: That takes about another hour-and-a-half, give or take. It's around three o'clock that the Crime Lab team appears here?
MR. STRANG: Now, um, there -- there -- there isn't a delicate way to say this, but, um, if what you were seeing here was human bone --
MR. STRANG: -- whether it's Teresa Halbach or not, the -- the -- the -- the person whose bones they are is beyond aid?
MR. STRANG: Um, so to the extent that people are hoping Teresa Halbach is still alive or didn't know about her fate at that point, uh, those searches would have, and could have, continued elsewhere outside of this burn area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I think they were.
MR. STRANG: There would have been no reason here to worry about a living person in the immediate area depicted in Exhibit 50?
MR. STRANG: When you folks, uh, started in on the recovery effort, you focused on this six-by-six -- roughly six-by-six rectangular area that you described for us?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: All right. Um, now, you did not set up a -- a grid, a stringed grid around that area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: We did not. No.
MR. STRANG: You did not set up a contamination path to control how people were going into or near that area?
MR. STRANG: Uh, what you did was, uh, found that most of the fragments, or things of interest, were sort of -- I don't know if pile is the right word -- but sort of in the center of that six-by-six foot area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The items I thought were bone fragments were the items within this six-by-six pit. Yes.
MR. STRANG: And they were more or less centrally deposited? At least the bulk of them? Is that --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Most of them, in my opinion and my recollection, were within the pile, yes.
MR. STRANG: All right. Um, so you folks, uh, set up the sifting apparatus somewhere to the side or close by?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Sifting apparatus was set up just in front, maybe just off to the right of the pile.
MR. STRANG: All right. You did -- You did not take photographs up close of fragments in place?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No, we did not.
MR. STRANG: Uh, in fact, you didn't take any of the photographs you're seeing today?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I -- I did not. No.
MR. STRANG: Do you -- Do you know whether the photographs even were taken on November 8?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: These photographs here?
MR. STRANG: That you've identified?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I don't know when they were taken.
MR. STRANG: Yeah. And clearly some of them show items in the -- in a garage somewhere? Uh, you know, an evidence garage? But you --
MR. STRANG: You don't know when any of the photographs were taken?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do not. No.
MR. STRANG: The scene, though, was -- was generally as you recall seeing?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir, it was.
MR. STRANG: All right. And, um, I think you observed some additional suspected charred bone material both within and around the debris pile --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: -- which you've described?
MR. STRANG: So the sifting screens are set up just to the south, and then what you folks do is you undertake some shoveling?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: You go in -- do -- with that shovel or one of your own?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. The Crime Lab brought out, uh, shovels to process the scene.
MR. STRANG: And they also brought out some smaller sort of hand trowels or scoops?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe so. Yes.
MR. STRANG: So you -- you folks sort of wade in and scoop up or shovel up --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, I would --
MR. STRANG: -- a shovelful and take it to the sifter?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe it was John Ertl and another Crime Lab technician, if you will, that actually shoveled up the debris and placed it on top of the sifter.
MR. STRANG: Okay. It's just -- just in the normal manner of shoveling and then carried over and put it on top of the sifting screen?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. We walked up, scooped up a shovelful of debris, and placed it on top of the, uh, sifting screen.
MR. STRANG: And, again, there's -- there's -- there's no attempt to photograph fragments in place before that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: There were -- there -- I -- I took no photographs. That's correct.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Uh, no attempt to mark, you know, as with nail polish or some other, uh, color spot, any of the fragments in place?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: There was not. No.
MR. STRANG: Okay. So you -- you go -- you -- you described for us going through, uh -- you know, the shovel goes to the sifting screen and that would be probably the screen with the largest mesh first?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: You shake the screen on its chains that's suspended from this tripod?
MR. STRANG: Sort of, you know, this kind of a motion?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Exactly.
MR. STRANG: And then that falls down to a tarp or to a -- to a -- a second sifting screen with smaller mesh?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe there might have been a second smaller sifting screen, which then the debris fell through onto the ground tarp. Yes.
MR. STRANG: All right. And then you think there was a third sifting screen somewhere with the finest mesh?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. Just -- just two screens.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Fair enough.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Just picked out the things that we thought might be bone fragments.
MR. STRANG: And the -- the things that are too small to get caught in either of the two screens with the -- the second one with smaller mesh, go through to the tarp?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: So the second, uh, sifting screen also would be shaken a little bit?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: To -- to get stuff to fall through?
MR. STRANG: And what's left in the -- in the screen you would examine by -- by eye and hand?
MR. STRANG: And if something looked like a pebble or a rock, presumably you would leave it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: If it didn't look like a bone fragment or a metal grommet or a zipper or something, it was left to be re-examined if, in fact, that turned out to be Teresa Halbach.
MR. STRANG: Sure. And the things that to the eye looked like they might be important, conceivably, you would pluck out and put in the box?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: And there, again, it -- it simply would go in the box. There wasn't an identification or a -- a nail polish dot or anything like that done at that point?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No, there was not.
MR. STRANG: All right. And then what was left on the tarp, though, you -- you did keep?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: Yeah. The tarp you bundle up, sort of fold up, and then double-bag in black, plastic garbage bags?
MR. STRANG: Put that in a locked truck?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct. Yes.
MR. STRANG: And all of that eventually goes to the Crime Lab?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I don't know where it went to.
MR. STRANG: Okay. But -- but the purpose was to keep all of this material so that it go -- could go to someone who might identify it, if possible, whether these are human bones?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The intent was to protect it and keep it if it needed to be re-examined.
MR. STRANG: During the time that you spent there at the scene in Exhibit 50, you were not aware of a forensic anthropologist being present at anytime?
MR. STRANG: Weren't involved in calling a forensic anthropologist?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was not. No.
MR. STRANG: No photos were taken by anyone at the site during the sifting process, itself?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did not take any photos. I'll take responsibility for that and I'll take the criticism that comes along with it. No.
MR. STRANG: Well, I -- I don't know that I'm really here to criticize you. Uh, I -- you know, I understand you're on cross-examination and --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. STRANG: I -- I'm simply trying to elicit the fact --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: (Inaudible.)
MR. STRANG: Yeah. And when you say you didn't take any photos, you didn't see anyone else taking --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did not. No.
MR. STRANG: -- photos either? Um, now, the -- the nature of the sifting process, obviously, is to sort of shake or rearrange whatever's in the sifting tray from its original position?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Correct.
MR. STRANG: Although the shovel would have done that as well, obviously?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, the sifter allows us to spread the debris out, you know, because there's -- there were ashes in there, there's other things in there that will fall through, and allows to more closely look at those items.
MR. STRANG: Right. Understood. But when I say -- You know, by the time they get to the sifting tray, they've already been scooped up with a shovel that picks up whatever the shovel will hold?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. STRANG: And from whatever area the person with the shovel decides to next strike the shovel?
MR. STRANG: Were you in -- Were you involved on Thursday, November 10, yourself, in sort of going back and -- and reprocessing or continuing this?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. I -- I did sift, um, other material here at the Sheriff's Department that we had collected.
MR. STRANG: But that was somewhat later or was --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it was.
MR. STRANG: Not on -- not on November 10?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Not on scene. No.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, I -- I probably covered this, but I -- but I just want to nail it down because I think I asked you about potential sites of human bone fragments on the Avery property. Um, were you -- were you sent to any potential sites or sites where potential human bone was found off of the Avery property?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was not. No.
MR. STRANG: Were you aware of any such sites?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was not.
MR. STRANG: Okay. That's all I have for you at the moment. Thank you.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Fallon, any, uh, redirect?
MR. FALLON: No redirect.
THE COURT: Very well. The witness is excused.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Thank you.
THE COURT: Members of the jury, I think we'll take our morning break at this time. I'll remind you again, as usual, not to discuss the case, uh, during the break.
(Jurors out at 10:27 a.m.)
THE COURT: Then, counsel, let's be ready to go at quarter to eleven.
(Recess had at 10:28 a.m.)
(Reconvened at 10:54 a.m.)
THE COURT: Mr. Fallon, are you going to be taking the next witness as well?
MR. FALLON: Yes.
THE COURT: You may call your witness.