2.David Siders — Direct/Cross
234 linesMR. KRATZ: State will call Dave Siders to the stand.
DEPUTY DAVID SIDERS, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
DAVID SIDERS: David Siders, S-i-d-e-r-s.
MR. KRATZ: If you could back up just about an inch from the microphone, Mr. Siders, I'm sure we would appreciate that.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Could you tell us how you are employed, sir?
DAVID SIDERS: I'm employed with the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department, Patrol Division.
MR. KRATZ: And how long have you been so employed?
DAVID SIDERS: Employed six years, Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department.
MR. KRATZ: What are your duties with Manitowoc County?
DAVID SIDERS: I'm assigned to the Patrol Division; along with evidence technician; assigned to the Manitowoc County SOS team, would be the Swat Team; along with the Manitowoc County Dive Team.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Siders, were you employed with the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department on the 7th of November, 2005?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: Could you tell us, please, what your areas of responsibility were that day?
DAVID SIDERS: Myself, along with Sergeant Scott Senglaub, Deputy Mike Bushman, and Sergeant Jason Jost responded to 12930 Avery Road, would be the Avery Salvage Yard, to assist Calumet County Sheriff's Department searching the property.
MR. KRATZ: I'm guessing our court reporter would like you to slow down a little bit too.
DAVID SIDERS: Okay.
MR. KRATZ: If you could do that, I would appreciate that. What were your responsibilities upon arrival at that scene?
DAVID SIDERS: We were to make contact with the officer in charge at the scene to get the daily duties.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. Were you given a specific job that day?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: What was that?
DAVID SIDERS: We were informed by the OIC to get in search groups.
MR. KRATZ: By the what?
DAVID SIDERS: Officer in charge.
MR. KRATZ: All right.
DAVID SIDERS: To get into a search group. The search group I was in was search group A. Our team leader of that search group was Deputy Mike Bushman of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department.
We were to search the property west of the Avery residence along White Cedar Road and property north of the Avery residence, this would be a corn field just north of Avery property.
MR. KRATZ: It's that open field that I'm most concerned about today, Deputy. I'm going to direct your attention to the large screen.
MR. KRATZ: This is Exhibit No. 85, counsel.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Are you able to orient yourself as you look at that location?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: There's a laser pointer that's right in front of you, Deputy Siders. If you take that laser pointer, please, and first tell me whether or not you and other search team members, on the 7th of November, did, in fact, search that open field north of the Avery salvage property?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, the team I was in, we searched starting here and worked our way across.
MR. KRATZ: All right. And you are pointing, what would be just north of the road that travels basically east and west, which would be on the north edge of the Avery salvage property itself; is that accurate?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Let me ask you, Deputy Siders, were you given specific instruction as to what you were looking for?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, we were basically looking for any type of clothing, whether it be a shirt, pants, shoes, any kind of object such as a cell phone, a camera, or even possibly a body.
MR. KRATZ: So at that time, that is, as of the 7th of November, a body or any human remains had not yet been found; is that correct?
DAVID SIDERS: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: While searching in the area north of the Avery property, had you, yourself, made any discovery?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: And can you tell the jury what that was, please?
DAVID SIDERS: When we started to search the corn field or the field north of that property, I came across a burning barrel which was in my section of searching. I walked up to the burning barrel and I looked inside, at which time I saw a metal rim with wires wrapped around it. It appeared to be a vehicle rim with the remains of a -- steel belts from a rubber tire.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Siders, Exhibit No. 37, which has already been introduced into evidence in this case, it is now being shown on the screen, can you tell us what we're looking at here, please?
DAVID SIDERS: Yeah, this burning barrel right there is the one that I approached. And I looked inside and saw the metal rim inside.
MR. KRATZ: All right. As we look at Exhibit No. 37, as we look at that burn barrel, can you describe for the jury a little bit more specifically where your team had been searching?
DAVID SIDERS: Okay. My team had been searching starting from -- there's a road here, starting from back behind here and was working toward the burning barrel. I was positioned right along this area here. And the rest of the team was in a line, going across to the north.
MR. KRATZ: Now, you told the jury that upon approach of this burning barrel, that you looked inside; is that right?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: And I think you mentioned something about a rim; what -- what is that?
DAVID SIDERS: It appeared to me to be like a vehicle rim, or like maybe a trailer rim to some type of vehicle.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to show you what's already been introduced as Exhibit No. 51; can you tell us what we're looking at here?
DAVID SIDERS: This object here is what I observed lying on top, inside the burning barrel.
MR. KRATZ: All right. I see that the rim is outside of the burn barrel in this photograph; can you tell me, if you know, who removed the rim from inside the burn barrel?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes. I removed the rim from inside the barrel.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. And when you looked inside of that burn barrel, can you tell us what you saw, please.
DAVID SIDERS: Inside the burn barrel I saw a lot of ashes and I saw a lot of burnt, melted plastic parts. As I looked closer at these plastic parts, it appeared to be parts of a cell phone that were actually melted inside the burning barrel.
MR. KRATZ: Before I show the rest of those pictures, there's one other photo, just to orient us a little bit better. In the back of Exhibit No. 51, and now what we're looking at is Exhibit 59; do you see a maroon S -- or excuse me, a maroon van?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Was that van there when you found the burn barrel and removed the rim from inside of it?
DAVID SIDERS: I can't recall if it was or not.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. Your observations were directed towards the inside; is that right?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
THE COURT: Deputy, actually, you can stay that distance from the microphone, I will just turn your volume down --
DAVID SIDERS: Okay.
THE COURT: -- if it's too loud.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ The first exhibit that I placed in front of you has already been introduced as an exhibit. Can you tell us what number that is, please.
DAVID SIDERS: It's Exhibit 156.
MR. KRATZ: I'm sorry?
DAVID SIDERS: 156.
MR. KRATZ: Tell us what that is.
DAVID SIDERS: This here is the inside of the burn barrel. This is what I would actually have been looking at when I lifted the rim out of the burn barrel.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. You talked about seeing some items inside of there, does Exhibit 156 look the same, or similar, as it did on the 7th of November as you looked inside that burn barrel?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, it does.
MR. KRATZ: There's three other exhibits in front of you. Why don't you grab them, one at a time, tell me what exhibit number they are and what it is that you are looking at.
DAVID SIDERS: Next exhibit would be 154; again, this would be the plastic remains I was looking at inside the burning barrel. Parts to a cell phone.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Deputy Sider, take a look at the large screen; is that Exhibit 154?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, it is.
MR. KRATZ: And, again, that's the same exhibit that's in front of you; is that correct?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, it is.
MR. KRATZ: Tell me what the next exhibit in front of you is, please.
DAVID SIDERS: Exhibit 155.
MR. KRATZ: And what is that?
DAVID SIDERS: Again, that's looking inside the burning barrel at the parts that I located belonging to a cell phone.
MR. KRATZ: We're now going to show the jury Exhibit 155; again, is that the same as the exhibit that's in front of you?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, it is.
MR. KRATZ: Now, Deputy Siders, you mentioned that you could tell, just on your observation, that at least one of the electronic components that you were looking at in the bottom of this burn barrel, you believed to be a cell phone; is that right?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: How did you know that?
DAVID SIDERS: Closer look at the piece of plastic, I note -- I notice an M emblem on the cell phone. This M emblem as known to me to be a Motorola emblem for the company of Motorola.
MR. KRATZ: All right. There's one more exhibit in front of you, tell me what that is, please.
DAVID SIDERS: Exhibit 157.
MR. KRATZ: And what is that?
DAVID SIDERS: That's also looking inside of the burning barrel, looking at parts -- parts of a camera.
MR. KRATZ: All right.
DAVID SIDERS: Excuse me, cell phone.
MR. KRATZ: These four exhibits, and now that the jury is looking at 157, these four exhibits are really pretty much the same, different degrees of magnification or angle, but is that fair?
DAVID SIDERS: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: Now, Deputy Siders, after witnessing or discovering this burn barrel, were other law enforcement officers summoned to that location?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, they were.
MR. KRATZ: Do you know if -- or let me just ask you this, do you know agents from what's known as the Division of Criminal Investigation?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: The scene, that is, the burn barrel itself, was that scene maintained by you; in other words, did you make sure that, at least while you were there, nobody fooled around with the stuff that was inside of it, or tampered with the evidence?
DAVID SIDERS: That's correct, I maintained custody of the barrel.
MR. KRATZ: And was there anybody from the Division of Criminal Investigation that you turned over custody of that burn barrel to?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, there was.
MR. KRATZ: Who was that?
DAVID SIDERS: Kevin Heimerl.
MR. KRATZ: Kevin Heimerl?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: Now, were you in charge of either seizing, that is, securing the burn barrel, or later searching its contents?
DAVID SIDERS: No, I was not.
MR. KRATZ: That was turned over to somebody else; is that right?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. KRATZ: All right.
MR. KRATZ: With the offer of those four photographs, Judge, that's all the questions I have of this witness. Thank you.
MR. STRANG: I have no objection to, I think they were 154, 155, 156 already is in, and then 157.
THE COURT: All right. The remaining exhibits, then, will be admitted.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY STRANG:
MR. STRANG: Good afternoon.
DAVID SIDERS: Good afternoon.
MR. STRANG: Let's go back, if we could, to Exhibit 51. When you folks were assigned to start looking through the farm field north of the Avery property your assignment also included part of the Avery property?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: So this was, really, the very beginning of the search of the field to the north?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, this would be at the beginning of the search of the field.
MR. STRANG: Now, that's actually not the one I thought. Where was the picture right before, which had the burning barrel from a greater distance, with the trailer in the background. I'm sorry. What is the one you showed right before?
MR. BUTING: Thirty-seven.
MR. STRANG: Thirty seven, that's it. There it is.
MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang)~ Now, that red trailer in the back, that's Steven Avery's house?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: This burn barrel, it's a little hard to tell from here, but the burn barrel looks like it's sort of sitting right out in the open, in a grassy area?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: But -- Although we can't see the blue, doublewide that would be to the left off this photo, there is another house there; do you remember that?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes. Correct.
MR. STRANG: House trailer. The burn barrel would be closer to the red trailer than to the other trailer?
DAVID SIDERS: I don't know the distance. I didn't measure the burning barrel from either trailer; I couldn't answer that.
MR. STRANG: You know, I know you didn't measure it, but no recollection of which one, to the eyeball, it looked closer to?
DAVID SIDERS: I couldn't tell.
MR. STRANG: Okay. But in any event, it's sort of sitting right off the gravel road, essentially becomes a driveway into the garage.
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: When you walked up and you looked down and you see this rim in there, you were able to just reach in and pull the rim out?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: That's a heavy enough item, you -- even you had to use two hands?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: What looked to you like maybe the remains of a steel belted radial, was that intwined with the rim?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: So that came out with the rim?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: You set that down, did the whole assembly look to you like somebody might simply have burned an entire tire and wheel assembly?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: Once you then had the rim and the belt out, you noticed that these things were rusty?
DAVID SIDERS: What was rusty, the rim or --
MR. STRANG: The rim.
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: If there was a steel belted radial, whatever the wiring was?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: That was rusty?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: All right. And then looked in there, and one thing we can't tell from -- or I can't tell, at least from Exhibits 154 through 157 in front of you, is how -- about how deep does it look like the ash and crud at the bottom of that can was?
DAVID SIDERS: If you could bring up a closer view of that burning barrel.
MR. STRANG: Sure, we'll go back to the one I thought I wanted, 51; how is that?
DAVID SIDERS: Okay. It's not an exact measurement; my estimation would have been that the top of the rim would have been sitting right around there.
MR. STRANG: So -- So maybe, roughly, two thirds of that barrel would have been full of ash and other material?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: You were able to reach in easily, had -- had you wanted to, and you could have touched these melted cell phone parts that you saw?
DAVID SIDERS: You would have to actually lean -- probably lean over to touch the ...
MR. STRANG: Okay. But they were probably above the -- my vocabulary is going to fail me now, but the crease -- ridge or crease, the higher ridge or crease on the barrel?
DAVID SIDERS: I would say that the parts were probably -- give you another estimation -- right around this area there.
MR. STRANG: Okay.
DAVID SIDERS: They weren't at the bottom, they were more, somewhere right in here.
MR. STRANG: All right. So if those -- those ridges roughly divide this barrel into thirds, give or take, the barrel was about two thirds full of this junk and ash?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: But the cell phone parts you saw, were lying on top --
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: -- of the other junk and ash? In looking in there, did it look to you as if a sort of crust had formed over the ash in the barrel?
DAVID SIDERS: The ash was more -- It had rained heavily, so it was kind of like a muck --
MR. STRANG: Mm-hmm.
DAVID SIDERS: -- type of ash. I couldn't say that there was actually a film, I just noted that it was all wet and damp.
MR. STRANG: It had the look of ashes after they had been rained on --
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: -- and then begun to dry?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: I mean, they still would have been mucky --
DAVID SIDERS: Yeah.
MR. STRANG: -- but you know the look I'm talking about, where eventually, as it dries, appear almost a crust on the ash?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: The cell phone pieces were atop that?
DAVID SIDERS: Kind of not -- or kind of mixed in with the ash, they weren't just, like, laying on top. They were kind of mixed in.
MR. STRANG: Because it still looked mucky to you?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: The entire time you spent at that barrel before, let's say -- say, boy, that looks like the Motorola emblem, or the insignia for Motorola, the entire time was give or take, roughly, how long?
DAVID SIDERS: That I stood there to observe that?
MR. STRANG: Yeah, before you said, boy, I think I see the Motorola emblem.
DAVID SIDERS: I don't know, approximately four to five minutes, just looking at it.
MR. STRANG: Just looking at it?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes.
MR. STRANG: But not touching things?
DAVID SIDERS: I didn't touch anything in there.
MR. STRANG: But 4 to 5 minutes is a long time, actually, if you just -- I mean, if we were to stand silent for 4 to 5 minutes, it would seem like an eternity, but you think it may have been that long?
DAVID SIDERS: Give or take.
MR. STRANG: And then you called somebody else over?
DAVID SIDERS: Yes, I did.
MR. STRANG: Was there anything -- other than being burned, was there anything obscured about the Motorola emblem?
DAVID SIDERS: Other than that it was melted plastic.
MR. STRANG: Right. And all of this, as the photos showed, sort of takes on a -- various shades of gray.
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: Maybe we could go back to -- Was there one in particular there where you can see that Motorola emblem?
DAVID SIDERS: I'm not going to be able to tell with these photographs here; it's just not that clear.
MR. STRANG: So, the photographs, you cannot see a Motorola emblem?
DAVID SIDERS: No, I can't.
MR. STRANG: But you were able to, with the naked eye, standing over this?
DAVID SIDERS: Correct.
MR. STRANG: The six, now going on seven years, I guess, that you have been with the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department, have you been on the Dive Team the entire time?
DAVID SIDERS: I have been on the Dive Team for the last three years.
MR. STRANG: Did you do any diving here?
DAVID SIDERS: No, I did not.
MR. STRANG: Weren't asked to participate in any of the dives?
DAVID SIDERS: No, we were not.
MR. STRANG: Do you know who did the dives?
DAVID SIDERS: I believe it was Outagamie Sheriff's Department Dive Team.
MR. STRANG: Did you say, gosh, you know, I'm -- I'm a member of a dive team and my department has one; did you volunteer to do that?
DAVID SIDERS: No, I did not.
MR. STRANG: Why not?
DAVID SIDERS: We weren't asked to. Our dive team was usually requested by either our sheriff or another outside agency to assist with a dive; if we're not asked, we don't dive.
MR. STRANG: And in this situation, the people running the search looked over across Lake Winnebago, to the top of Lake Winnebago, to the Outagamie County Sheriff's Department?
DAVID SIDERS: That's what I can guess. They were the ones that contacted them.
MR. STRANG: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. KRATZ: Not of this witness, Judge, no.
THE COURT: Very well, the witness is excused.
MR. KRATZ: Could we approach just briefly, Judge.
THE COURT: Sure.
(Side bar taken.)
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to call Bill Tyson to the stand.