5.Susan Brandt — Direct/Cross/Redirect
101 linesMR. FALLON: State would call Susan Brandt. Hold on. Excuse me.
MR. GAHN: Your Honor, I would offer, um, the exhibits, um -- just one second -- 165, 166 and 167 into evidence.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. FREMGEN: No.
THE COURT: Received.
COURT CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
SUSAN BRANDT, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
SUSAN BRANDT: Susan Brandt, B-r-a-n-d-t.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY FALLON:
MR. FALLON: What do you do for a living at this time?
SUSAN BRANDT: I'm a stay-at-home mom.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, how many children do you have?
SUSAN BRANDT: Three.
MR. FALLON: All right. What is your, um, educational training?
SUSAN BRANDT: I have a Bachelor's in psychology and a Master's in counselor education.
MR. FALLON: All right. And when did you receive your Bachelor's Degree?
SUSAN BRANDT: I graduated, um, December of 2002.
MR. FALLON: And from which institution?
SUSAN BRANDT: The University of Wisconsin-Platteville.
MR. FALLON: And your Masters Degree, uh, when did you receive that?
SUSAN BRANDT: I graduated May of 2006.
MR. FALLON: All right. And from which institution?
SUSAN BRANDT: The University of Wisconsin-Platteville also.
MR. FALLON: Directing your attention to a time period of January, 2006 until May of 2006, while you were a student, did you have any internship or employment associated with your pursuit of your Master's Degree?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: And where were you employed?
SUSAN BRANDT: I was an intern at Mishicot Middle School and Mishicot High School.
MR. FALLON: All right. Tell us about your internship arrangement at the, uh, middle school?
SUSAN BRANDT: I had worked with, um, Karen Baumgartner in the middle school guidance office in the morning, and in the afternoon I worked with Amber Fox-Brewer in the afternoon.
MR. FALLON: And that was at the high school?
SUSAN BRANDT: At the high school.
MR. FALLON: All right. And were you, um, at the schools on a daily basis in your internship capacity?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes. I worked, um, Monday through Thursday, and I had Fridays off.
MR. FALLON: Um, directing your attention to January of 2006, early January, did you have occasion to have contact with a student by the name of Kayla Avery?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: Um, would you describe for us, um, first and foremost, um, how that contact occurred?
SUSAN BRANDT: Kayla came into the counseling office and asked to speak to a counselor.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, who was present when she came in and asked to speak with a counselor?
SUSAN BRANDT: It was myself and Karen Baumgartner.
MR. FALLON: Tell us what happened?
SUSAN BRANDT: Kayla came in, um, to the office, and, um, she was asked by Ms. Baumgarner -- Ms. Baumgartner if she minded that I was there, and Kayla said, no. And she said she was there because she was feeling scared.
MR. FALLON: All right. Let me stop you there, first, and ask who else, if anyone, was present for this conversation?
SUSAN BRANDT: No one else.
MR. FALLON: All right. So there's just the three of you?
SUSAN BRANDT: Correct.
MR. FALLON: All right. And did Kayla reveal to the two of. you why she was feeling scared and why she wanted to talk?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: And what did she tell you?
SUSAN BRANDT: She told us that she was scared, um, because her uncle, Steven Avery, had asked one of her cousins to help move a body.
MR. FALLON: All right. What else, if anything, did she tell you about that?
SUSAN BRANDT: She also said she was scared about going to the shop, um, and she, specifically, asked if blood can come up through concrete.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, was -- Did she identify which of her cousins may have been asked by her uncle, Steven Avery, to move this body?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FALLON: All right. Describe for us, if you will, Kayla's demeanor, her affect, during these revelations?
SUSAN BRANDT: She -- She was scared.
MR. FALLON: All right. Did she seem at all confused?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FALLON: Was this the first time you, um, ever, uh, had contact with Kayla?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: All right. Um, your best estimate, approximately how long did this conversation take?
SUSAN BRANDT: My best guess would be 15 or 20 minutes.
MR. FALLON: All right. How was Kayla's demeanor at the conclusion of this discussion?
SUSAN BRANDT: I think she still felt scared, but maybe a little bit more relieved.
MR. FALLON: All right. Did she, at the end of the conversation, um, seem confused by anything that she was telling you?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FALLON: I'll pass the witness.
THE COURT: Cross.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY FREMGEN:
MR. FREMGEN: You said this was the first time you've met Kayla?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes, that's correct.
MR. FREMGEN: So you had no perspective as to what her normal demeanor is?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FREMGEN: Don't know if she's normally a scared girl?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FREMGEN: You had, uh, no way of telling whether she was telling you the truth; correct?
SUSAN BRANDT: Correct.
MR. FALLON: Objection. Improper question. Commenting on the veracity.
THE COURT: I -- You're correct. Uh, the objection's sustained. Credibility is solely to be judged by -- by this jury.
MR. FALLON: Move to strike.
THE COURT: Motion granted. Question is struck.
MR. FREMGEN: (By Attorney Fremgen) You don't have any -- Again, because this is the first time you met her, you don't know her reputation for telling the truth; correct?
SUSAN BRANDT: Correct.
MR. FREMGEN: Now, you indicated that you had both, uh, a -- a Bachelor's Degree and -- were -- did you have a Master's at this point?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FREMGEN: Were you working on it? This was the internship portion of the Master's?
SUSAN BRANDT: Correct.
MR. FREMGEN: And you've taken a number of classes in child development?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes.
MR. FREMGEN: Number of classes, uh, or courses of study that deal with, um, children in general?
SUSAN BRANDT: Yes.
MR. FREMGEN: It -- Is it fair to state in your studies that, uh, one -- maybe not a common -- theme with children is that they sometime -- sometimes are looking for attention; is that correct?
SUSAN BRANDT: Sometimes.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. And they do things that sometimes it's just intended to draw attention to themselves?
SUSAN BRANDT: Correct.
MR. FREMGEN: I have nothing else.
THE COURT: Any redirect, Counsel?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY FALLON:
MR. FALLON: Was there any point during this meeting that you thought she was just there to get some attention?
SUSAN BRANDT: No.
MR. FALLON: That's it.
THE COURT: All right. The witness may step down.