7.Thomas Sturdivant — Direct/Cross
253 linesMR. FALLON: State would call Mr. Tom Sturdivant.
THOMAS STURDIVANT, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Special Agent Thomas Allen Sturdivant. It's S-t-u-r-d-i-v-a-n-t.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY FALLON:
MR. FALLON: What do you do for a living?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm a special agent with the Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation, Narcotics Bureau.
MR. FALLON: How long have you been employed for the Wisconsin Department of Justice?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Since 1998.
MR. FALLON: Prior to that time, did you hold any other law enforcement, um, positions?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did. I worked for the, uh, Maine State Police in the state of Maine.
MR. FALLON: And how long did you work for the Maine State Police?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Approximately 11 years.
MR. FALLON: Uh, you indicated your current assignment is the Narcotics Bureau for the Division of Criminal Investigation. Prior to that assignment, did you have any other assignment?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. I worked in both the Financial Crimes Bureau, as well as the Arson Bureau.
MR. FALLON: And how much time did you spend in the Arson Bureau?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Approximately two years.
MR. FALLON: During what time frame would that have been roughly?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Uh, that would be roughly between 2003 and 2005.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, Mr. Sturdivant, I'd like to direct your attention to, uh, Tuesday afternoon, November 8, 2005. At that particular time were you currently in the employ of the Department of Justice?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was.
MR. FALLON: All right. Uh, on that particular day were you asked to assist in execution of a search warrant at the Avery Salvage Yard?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was.
MR. FALLON: And where is that salvage yard located, generally? Which county?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Uh, Manitowoc County.
MR. FALLON: All right. What, um, in particular, on that day, were you asked to do?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I was asked to do a couple of things. One was to execute a search warrant at the Avery business. The junkyard business. And, secondly, I was asked to go out and take a look at so-called hot spots. These were just areas that were identified by the state troopers as having some, um -- some -- some areas of interest. Perhaps they might have been ashen sites, they might have been a motor vehicle, they might have been a variety of other things.
MR. FALLON: All right. And in terms of, um, one of these spots, was there a time where you were asked -- or your attention was directed to an area behind the garage identified as Steven Avery's garage?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. Uh, sometime after 1:30, I was asked to go over and take a look at some of these so-called places that -- of interest, and one happened to be a -- a -- behind the Steven Avery garage, and, uh, Manitowoc officer, Jason Jost, was standing over what, uh, in my Opinion, was a -- a piece of charred, uh, bone matter, which was about, uh, um, six or eight feet from the pile of dirt behind the garage.
MR. FALLON: All right. And how was your attention directed to that area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I think at some point, um, we were asked to go out -- uh, prior to 1:30 -- go out and take a look at some of these places of interest. And as I walked over there, myself and Special Agent Deb Straus were basically summoned by, uh, Deputy Jost to come over \ and take a look at an item that he was standing, uh, near.
MR. FALLON: All right. And when your attention was directed to that area, what did you, um -- what did you do?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, the first thing I did is when I walked over and -- and -- by the deputy, he pointed out this piece of material that was lying on the ground, which appeared to be about, uh -- about one inch in length -- one -- one inch by one inch, which appeared to me, again, to be a piece of charred bone matter.
MR. FALLON: All right. Um, and to begin with, I'd like to, uh -- the skee (phonetic) the screen to, uh, project, uh, Exhibit 132, um, first, and then, uh, we're going to have two more photographs marked.
Um, your attention is directed either to the screen in front of you or the one to your immediate left. Um, do you recognize that particular area? Exhibit 132?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do.
MR. FALLON: All right. Tell us about that. What is depicted there?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: What is depicted here is a -- What is depicted here is a pile of gravel, which I estimated to be approximately 30 feet by 30 feet, um, which gradually rises to approximately two feet in height, and it's sand and gravel piled up on the natural landscape. And this was directly behind the -- Steven Avery's -- the, uh, detached two-car garage.
And in the center of this pit -- And in the center of this, uh, 30-foot by 30-foot pile of gravel here was what I considered a -- or I -- I refer to it as a burn pit, which is about six feet wide, and it appeared to me as though somebody had come in with a six-foot scoop and scooped out six feet of this gravel. This wasn't -- The -- This pile of gravel wasn't natural to the landscape. It had been placed on top of the grass behind Steven Avery's garage.
MR. FALLON: All right.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: And the piece of bone fragment that I initially --
MR. FALLON: We'll get to that in just a minute. I think we have, uh, two more other photographs in front of you that might be illustrative. Um, what are the exhibit numbers on those photographs, please?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The first one I looked at was Exhibit 0-4-1-8-0-7. I'm sorry, 06 CF 88. Exhibit 168.
MR. FALLON: Exhibit 168?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: Thank you. All right. And, um, we're going to have that projected in just a moment. All right. Now, um, the exhibit which is depicted on the screen now, is that 168?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it is.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, um, is that a fair and accurate portrayal of this burn area at the time you first set eyes on it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it is.
MR. FALLON: All right. We note that there is a, uh -- a German or Belgian Shepherd appearing there?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes.
MR. FALLON: Uh, was that dog present when you first discovered the area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it was.
MR. FALLON: Uh, tell us about that particular dog, if you would?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: This was a large German Shepherd-type dog that was a -- very aggressive, and would actually lunge at people as they walked towards this mound of dirt. The doghouse was positioned on top of the dirt and the dog could reach, um, around the mound of dirt. Um, and, again, it was -- it was barking, it would lunge at people, and -- and I was also told that the dog might have bit a, uh, trooper.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Um, that -- that's hearsay. Ask that it be stricken.
MR. FALLON: It's not a matter, uh --
THE COURT: It will -- It will -- Objection's sustained. Strike that last remark about the dog biting.
MR. FALLON: All right.
MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) Now, I note that there is a red, um, box-like, or shed, um, item which appears on the left-hand side of the photograph. What is that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That is the doghouse.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, um, you have one other photograph in front of you. Let's talk a little bit about that.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Okay.
MR. FALLON: Which photograph -- What exhibit number is that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's Exhibit 169.
MR. FALLON: All right. And what is depicted in Exhibit 169?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Depicted in this photo are a number of things. The, uh, swirl from the, uh, steel belt from the tires.
MR. FALLON: Let's use your, um, pointer, if you would, and --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Sure.
MR. FALLON: -- identify for us what you believe is steel-belted wiring?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: This is -- This is what I believe to be steel-belted wiring from steel-belted tires. Another tire. Uh, this is a burned out, uh -- the burned out -- completely consumed, um, uh, seat from a, uh -- what I thought might be a bench seat from a van. Um, also, in here, was, uh, what I believed to be bone fragment intertwined within the steel-belted, uh, tire, um, stuff here.
MR. FALLON: All right. All right. Let's take these a little bit, um, at a time. What was the first thing about this area that drew your attention to this, um, pit area as being, perhaps, somewhat significant? Or at least interesting?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, the first thing that drew my attention to this burn pit was the bone fragment that was approximately eight feet away from the burn pit. As you're looking at this photo, that piece of bone fragment was about eight feet out this way.
MR. FALLON: All right. We're going to switch back to Exhibit -- I believe it was 168?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Okay.
MR. FALLON: And, um, does that help you assist, perhaps, in placing the area where the fragment is?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it does. The bone fragment's located, I estimated, about eight feet away from the -- the burn pit.
MR. FALLON: All right. Upon discovering that fragment, what did you do?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I -- I looked at the fragment. I did not touch it. And I was curious about this pit, so I walked over towards the burn pit, looked at the burn pit, and noticed what I believed to be other or additional burned or charred bone matter within this pile of debris and around the burn pit.
Also, there was what I believed to be bone fragment intertwined in the steel belts -- the steel -- of the steel-belted, uh, material here. And the other thing I did is I -- I had a twig, I moved -- there were leaves in this -- there's some leaves here, and I moved a couple leaves, and noticed what I thought to be was, uh, skull matter or skull bone fragments, um, within the -- the, uh, debris pile.
MR. FALLON: All right. Now, there -- Yeah. There appear to be other implements, um, near the, uh, burn pile. Um, could you identify those for us?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. I noticed a shovel, which was of a spade design. I also noted a hammer, um, a rake. There was a rake here as well. A screwdriver, um, and some other things, uh, within the burn area.
MR. FALLON: All right. Upon making, um -- We're going to have a few exhibits brought in for you to examine. I'm having Investigator Wiegert hand you what is marked as Exhibit 170. Do you recognize that item?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, I do.
MR. FALLON: And what is Exhibit No. 170?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: This is the rake that was, uh, at the -- the burn site.
MR. FALLON: All right. And that is the one. All right. And if we could have the officer show you 171? While Investigator Wiegert is, um, taking that out, just so the record is clear, would you describe the condition of the rake first?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It's, um -- It's a handled rake, um, certainly partially burned. Um, the handle is partially -- or the, uh, rake, itself, is somewhat oxidized or rusted, and it's got leaves, and, um, metal, uh, perhaps steel belt, um, stuck in some of the, uh -- the rake blades.
MR. FALLON: From your time in the, uh, Arson Bureau, you -- are you familiar with the phrase, "alligatoring effect"?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: In terms of the burn?
MR. FALLON: Yes.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Uh, to -- to a certain extent.
MR. FALLON: All right. Well, do you see any particular type of -- What -- What's the degree of burning on that, um -- that rake?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, the burning is -- is -- is at the bottom, and working its way towards the top, meaning that more heat was applied to the bottom of this than the top. Therefore, you've got more charring and more burning from the bottom up.
MR. FALLON: All right. What do you call, in your experience, the -- that ridge-like effect on the wood that you're holding?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The, um -- the specific name, um, escapes me but --
MR. FALLON: Okay.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: -- um -- But, you know, the heat -- By looking at this, you can tell that it burned more from the bottom than from the top, and it was used -- or that -- in the fire at the bottom.
MR. FALLON: All right.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: So --
MR. FALLON: And the handle of that rake is made out of what substance, just --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Wood.
MR. FALLON: -- so --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Wood.
MR. FALLON: Very good. All right. Would you take it -- a look at Exhibit 171, please? Do you recognize Exhibit 171?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, I do. Um, this is the spade that was at the scene, um, as depicted in the photo as well, um, that I observed, uh, near the burn pit, um, on November 8.
MR. FALLON: All right. And if you would, what is the handle of the spade made out of?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: This would be a, uh -- a wood as well.
MR. FALLON: All right. And describe the condition of, first of all, the spade, itself? The shovel portion of the --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The -- the -- the bottom of the shovel, the metal part is what I would refer to as a spade, and it does show some signs of, also, being exposed to fire, um, with some of the charring, um, at the bottom of the blade, towards the blade, itself.
MR. FALLON: All right. Does the blade appear to be somewhat oxidized?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it does.
MR. FALLON: Is that an unusual occurrence for metal being exposed to fire?
MR. FALLON: All right. Very good. I'll have Investigator Wiegert take that from you. Now, after you made the discovery of the bone fragment, which was about eight feet in front of the area that you've described, and then you said -- you indicated you used, perhaps, a twig or something to move some leaves to get a closer look at some of the other items directly in the -- the darkened area, which is depicted in, uh, Exhibit 168, um, which is portrayed on the screen, I believe?
MR. FALLON: All right. After you made these discoveries, what did you do?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: After -- after the bones, or bone matter, or charred matter, was discovered, at that point we made several phone calls. We attempted to, um, contact some of the arson folks and have them come over. They were busy with other issues. We also contacted the Crime Lab folks, and because they were busy processing other, uh, scenes, it was probably, uh, an hour-and-a-half or so before the Crime Lab actually arrived at the burn pit.
MR. FALLON: All right. And who, in fact, arrived at the burn pit to assist you?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The, uh -- The Crime Lab personnel were, um, John Ertl, uh, Chuck Cates, and Guang Zhang. Um --
MR. FALLON: All right. Prior to their arrival, did you attempt any processing of the pit yourself?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Absolutely not.
MR. FALLON: All right. Um, when they arrived, tell us how the pit was processed?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: When the Crime Lab arrived at the scene, um, John Ertl and others, as -- as well as myself and Deputy Jost, assisted with erecting a sifting apparatus. And this is just not something one person can erect. It's a large, um, tripod-type to -- um, piece of equipment, and so it took a -- a couple of us, uh, to erect this thing. It's, again, a large tripod. It probably stands eight feet off the ground.
And from that, um, after -- after putting up the tripod, we then attached sifting devices, which were probably two feet in width and maybe four feet in length, and, uh, begun to sift through that debris pile.
MR. FALLON: All right. And, um, how did this sifting actually mechanically occur?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: John Ertl, and some of the other Crime Lab folks, actually scooped up that debris material with a -- I believe a flat shovel, if I'm -- if my memory serves me correctly, placed that onto those sifting screens, which were, again, I think, two feet wide by four feet in length. There may have been more than one sifter. And as the debris is placed on top of what we sorted, and we picked out things that we felt were either bone fragments, teeth, um, metal grommets, zipper, uh, a, uh, piece of a metal belt buckle, and, um, SO as we sifted through that, we took those things out that we thought might be bone matter and other things that might be of importance, and then placed those items into a box, um, that, uh, was turned -- or -- or -- that the Crime Lab took with them after we completed sifting that pile of debris, which is right there.
MR. FALLON: All right. I'm showing -- I'm having Mr. Fassbender, um, show you Exhibit 172. If you would take a moment to examine that exhibit? Do you recognize Exhibit 172?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. This is -- This is the, uh, zipper that we picked out of the -- the debris that we were sifting through --
MR. FALLON: All right.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: -- from this pile.
MR. FALLON: All right. Are there any particular markings or anything on that zipper?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, there are.
MR. FALLON: And would you tell us what they are, please?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: They are in capital Y-K-K.
MR. FALLON: All right. Very good. Thank you. Approximately how long did, um, the sifting process take that you engaged in?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I think -- I would -- I would just have to guess, was roughly two hours, and that included the time that we actually set up the apparatus, the sifting, and we sifted rapidly due to -- due to, uh, darkness.
MR. FALLON: All right. And you indicated the presence of other, uh, implements or items, uh, in the general area of the pit?
MR. FALLON: I'd like you to, first of all, if you can recall, what was -- what implements, if any, were actually found in the darkened area, which looks like the burn part? If you could recall what -- what was found in that part?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe there was a screwdriver, hammer, um, of course, this, um, steel-belt wiring, a hacksaw blade, and I believe that was it to the best of my recollection.
MR. FALLON: I'm having Investigator Fassbender show you Exhibit 173. Uh, is there, uh, an item depicted in there?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. It's --
MR. FALLON: Is that --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It's a screwdriver.
MR. FALLON: We'll have that projected in just a moment. That is the screwdriver that you were, um, just speaking of?
MR. FALLON: Uh, the photograph also appears to depict some circular wire material?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. In -- in -- in my opinion, this was more steel belt -- steel-belt wiring.
MR. FALLON: All right. Very good.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: And that was Exhibit 173.
MR. FALLON: As, um, five o'clock drew near, what did you do?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: As -- As darkness was nearing, um, we sifted what we could, um, and I felt it was important to pick this--- these items up and get them to the Crime Lab, because at this point in time we don't know if Teresa Halbach is alive or dead. So it was important, with the impending darkness, to sift through this stuff, do it fairly quickly, be thorough, pick out what we could, and then get that to the Crime Lab so the Crime Lab could analyze that and make some sort of determination.
So after -- after we sifted through the remaining debris -- And we sifted this on top of a tarp that I think was six feet by eight feet. So the stuff that we sifted through we collected, we double- and triple-bagged that debris that was depicted in the picture, and placed that into the Calumet County, uh, evidence van, if you will. So --
MR. FALLON: All right. And how was the pit preserved, if at all, when you were done?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The pit -- Uh, we placed a tarp over the pit so that if this, in fact, turned out to be Teresa, that we would then go back and more closely examine that pit and, um -- a little closer.
MR. FALLON: We're going to have you identify one more exhibit. Uh, Investigator Wiegert, um, prepared the exhibit for your examination. This may require you to step off of the stand. I'm not sure how -- what your view will be. Just bear with us one moment. Um, Mr. Sturdivant, would you step forward? Um, I'll share my microphone with you so everyone can hear.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Um-hmm.
MR. FALLON: Uh, we've had now produced, um, an exhibit marked 174. And do you recognize it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I -- I don't know that I need it. I do. And then maybe we put up photo 169 or --
MR. FALLON: Sure.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: -- and I can just point that out to you.
MR. FALLON: Yep.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: This is a -- in my opinion, just a -- a burned out, um, bench seat frame from a motor vehicle that is clearly completely consumed. That was to the -- if you -- as you're facing this pit, if it's directly in front of us, this -- this seat, or bench seat, was immediate to the right, or the edge of it, towards the -- the burn pit.
MR. FALLON: All right. And just so it's clear, Exhibit 174, is this the seat which you observed at the scene and which is depicted in Exhibit 169?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, it is.
MR. FALLON: All right. You may have your seat. Thank you. Does it appear to be in substantially the same condition as it was when, um, you first observed it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It does.
MR. FALLON: Your Honor, at this time I would, um, move into evidence Exhibits 168 through 174. Upon their receipt, uh, would tender the witness for cross-examination.
THE COURT: Any objection, Counsel?
MR. FREMGEN: No objection.
THE COURT: Uh, items 168 through 174 are received. And you may cross.
MR. FREMGEN: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY FREMGEN:
MR. FREMGEN: If I could just use those photographs? Thank you.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: You're welcome.
MR. FREMGEN: While I'm doing this, if I could ask you a couple of questions. Maybe a silly question, but I don't un -- I don't know the answer to this. As you looked at each item, you put on a pair of gloves; correct?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, I did.
MR. FREMGEN: Why do you do that?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, because there's -- For one, there's, um, soot on the items. And, two, to keep my hands clean. And, secondly, just because it's something you typically do when you're processing evidence.
MR. FREMGEN: So you -- It's just a normal occurrence for you in your -- probably from being a -- a crime scene tech for so long that you just, second nature, grabbed some gloves?
MR. FREMGEN: I'm not a crime scene tech so that's why I --
(inaudible. )
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I'm not a crime -- crime scene technician, either.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. This is, uh, Exhibit 169? The picture?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. FREMGEN: And this, I believe you testified to, was essentially the van seat with some steel-belted tire wiring wadded up; correct?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. FREMGEN: And just behind that is a tire; correct?
MR. FREMGEN: Obviously, that tire doesn't look burned --
MR. FREMGEN: -- correct? Is this the way the scene looked when you got to this fire pit area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do not recall some of these red flags being in the -- in the crime scene.
MR. FREMGEN: The van seat, itself, though, was not on the actual ashened area of the pit? It was off to the side like this?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: The van -- The van seat was close to the edge of the burn pit, and this -- there -- we don't have -- this isn't a complete photo, so I'm not certain how close that is to the pit.
MR. FREMGEN: So did someone move the van seat to where it's at now?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It's hard to depict from this photo exactly where the burn pit is, but the seat was located -- that's your -- that's a -- that's -- that's a fairly accurate representation of where that seat was.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. I -- I guess I was under the impression from your previous answer that that -- you said that the van seat, itself, was somewhere in this area when you first arrived?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Maybe we can get a better photo, but the van seat was to the immediate right of the burn pit.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. I'll show you Ex -- Exhibit 168 again. The large -- larger picture of the burn pit?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes. The seat would have been right here, right beside the pile of steel-belted wire.
MR. FREMGEN: Do you know who moved it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do not.
MR. FREMGEN: Was it, uh, some other -- some other officer or someone else that was at the scene before you?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I assume that was moved after the scene. Probably taken into evidence.
MR. FREMGEN: Agent, I'm going to show you what's been marked Exhibit 175. Can you describe what that picture or photograph shows? And then I'll put it on the --
MR. KRATZ: If you just hit one, it's all cued up.
MR. FREMGEN: Great.
MR. FREMGEN: (By Attorney Fremgen) Now, using this photograph, can you better --
MR. FREMGEN: -- describe --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Um-hmm.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: All right. This -- This is the burn pit, and this is a seat to the right of the burn pit.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. But as far as you know, the seat, itself, had not been on the -- the burn pit area where -- the sunken area when you arri -- rived. It was where it is --
THOMAS STURDIVANT: It was --
MR. FREMGEN: now in the picture?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Right. It was not -- The burn -- The -- The seat was not on top of the debris pile. It was to the right.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. Now, you indicated you found some smallen (phonetic) -- what you believed to be smallen pieces of bone in the -- that large wad of steel belts?
MR. FREMGEN: Did you find any in the van seat?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. The, uh -- The bone material was intertwined in all this steel belt.
MR. FREMGEN: You -- you mentioned that what drew your attention to this area in particular was having seen a small bone fragment about eight feet from the front end of the bone -- of the burn pit?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. FREMGEN: And about how big a bone fragment was it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: As I estimated, it was about one inch by one inch. Just a small bone fragment.
MR. FREMGEN: Could you tell by looking at that bone fragment whether it was human or animal?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I could not.
MR. FREMGEN: Do you have expertise in bone fragments? Being able to distinguish between human and the -- and the animal?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I do not, sir.
MR. FREMGEN: When you refer to a skull bone fragment in the burn pit, you don't have an expertise that it's distinguished between skull fragments and other fragments?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No, sir.
MR. FREMGEN: You were just assuming?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Wasn't assumption. I think what -- what I -- I testified to is I thought that it was important that we pick these bones up and have them analyzed to determine whether or not they were human bones and Teresa Halbach's.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay. But, I mean, at the time you arro -- arrived at the scene, you didn't know what they were?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I did not, sir. No.
MR. FREMGEN: But they at least provided you with some sort of ev -- potential evidential value that you wanted to protect it or preserve it?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: That's correct.
MR. FREMGEN: In Exhibit 173 -- I'll put that back up on the ELMO -- you were describing the screwdriver in the middle of this pit area; correct?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Yes, sir.
MR. FREMGEN: And, actually, I -- I think I might have misspoke. It's actually on the outer edge of the pit area?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Well, I believe the screwdriver was -- I consider the pit the concave area, or that area that had that six-foot rectangular area that was scooped out.
MR. FREMGEN: The screwdriver, did it -- was it burned?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: I believe it just had -- you can see soot on the handle. Did not see any indication where it's burned here.
MR. FREMGEN: Nothing on the, uh -- the metal portion?
MR. FREMGEN: Didn't have that same look, for instance, as the spade of -- of -- of the shovel?
THOMAS STURDIVANT: No. This is, uh, the way it appears.
MR. FREMGEN: Okay.
MR. FREMGEN: Thank you, Your Honor. I have nothing else.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. FALLON: None.
THE COURT: You may step down.
THOMAS STURDIVANT: Thank you.
THE COURT: You're welcome.
MR. FALLON: We have one last witness.
THE COURT: All right.