5.Anthony O'Neill — Cross/Redirect/Recross (Part 2)

MR. EDELSTEIN: Detective O'Neill, you spent about an hour and twenty minutes with Brendan during the course of this contact on the 6th of November; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And Skorlinski was there as well?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. This had been some time back; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Of what year?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right, 2005. It's a while back; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Before coming to testify today, did you have an opportunity to discuss with anyone, um, the -- your testimony to help you be prepared for this jury?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I'm sorry? What about Marinette?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I don't want to get confused now. On the way -- are you talking about on the way down here you talked with these attorneys about things happening in Marinette?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Right.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Right.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you speak with any of the other officers who were involved in the investigation in this particular case?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did the, uh -- Did you and Baldwin come down together?

MR. EDELSTEIN: But you talked to Baldwin prior to testifying here today?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, you knew that the girl's name, about whom everyone was concerned, was Teresa Halbach; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you knew that the information was that the last place she was seen was at the Avery Salvage Yard; is that right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you knew the date that she was last there; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Prior to speaking with Brendan, had you spoken with Steven Avery?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Charles Avery?

MR. EDELSTEIN: The grandfather?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Grandma?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And that was there at the cabin; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And that was actually the day before?

MR. EDELSTEIN: What do you mean the "most part"?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. But you had been in and out of the -- the cabin property a number of times over at least two days?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Prior to talking with Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Brendan wasn't the first one you talked to?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you were in contact with, uh, agents from DCI; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you have daily contact over the course of the two days with, uh, Skorlinski?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Had -- How many times had you personally met with Skorlinski before you spoke to Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And where was that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Prior to stopping the Pontiac and talking with Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And the two of you, along with others, including, uh, Baldwin, for example, you kind of laid the game plan out as far as who was going to talk to which of the boys; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Well, the truth of the matter is, you had the opportunity over at the cabin to talk to him if you wanted to, didn't you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And why was that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You stopped the Pontiac on what day of the week?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And what time did you do your last interview on, um, the day before? On Saturday?

MR. EDELSTEIN: It was a pretty important case, isn't it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I don't mean to give you a hard time, but you can work past sunset, can't you? You live in the county? You know your way around?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, on that Saturday night, you're working with, uh, what you understand to be a, um -- certainly, at a very minimum, a missing persons case; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And was it important to make contact with individuals who may have had the last contact with this girl?

MR. EDELSTEIN: That's why you were there Saturday?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you talked with a bunch of people that Saturday, but you left out -- what you're telling the jury, you left out about sunset?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you inquire on that Saturday as to the whereabouts of Brendan when you were at the Avery property?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Pard me?

MR. EDELSTEIN: So what stopped you from talking to him on Saturday?

MR. EDELSTEIN: So you say up to a point on Sunday. What happened between Saturday evening and Sunday?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, can you be a little more specific? What happened that caused you, besides the -- the lapse of 12 hours time, that you deemed it important at this point to talk with Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Let me ask you this --

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Go ahead.

MR. EDELSTEIN: When did you exactly learn that the bus driver reported passing that area at roughly 3:45 on the 31st? You knew that on Saturday, didn't you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: When did you learn it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, you had -- What was your purpose in going over there on Sunday?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Besides learning from -- Was Brendan already in your police vehicle when you learned from Skorlinski that this information had been developed about the bus driver?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And during the course of this hour and twenty minutes, do you know when that was?

MR. EDELSTEIN: No. I -- I'd rather you answer my question. The Government will get --

MR. EDELSTEIN: their chance.

MR. EDELSTEIN: So you believe it was about the time you asked him the question about the number of individuals on the bus as far as the -- where that information came to you during the course of the hour and twenty minutes?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, Skorlinski is the one who actually made application for and obtained the search warrant for Steve Avery's Pontiac; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you know when that occurred?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Correct.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Do you know when Skorlinski actually got the warrant?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) But you know it was before Sunday; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Detective, obviously, you filed and prepared some reports as a result of your activity in this case; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you testified earlier that you had reviewed some of your notes, uh, to help refresh your memory for purposes of testifying?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. I thought that -- I thought you said your notes.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you look at any notes that you made of your activities, which you would ordinarily make, to help you prepare reports, for example?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Would those notes indicate when you learned that Skorlinski had obtained the search warrant for the Pontiac automobile?

MR. EDELSTEIN: The report or your notes?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, before -- Are you the one who actually stopped the Pontiac automobile?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you know who did?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And what time was that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Can you be more specific?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So if -- if your report says at about 11:55 a.m. you and Baldwin, uh, met with Degnitz on Parkway, that would -- you wouldn't take issue with that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Had he already stopped the Pontiac?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And who's the one that directed him to stop the Pontiac?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you don't remember if you were the one who -- This -- this is a deputy within your department; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you can't tell us who -- whether you have an independent memory of telling one of your own deputies in your department to stop a vehicle where you have a search warrant?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) So to the best of your recollection, was the vehicle stopped by the time you got there?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And I believe you testified that you and Baldwin took Brendan into your vehicle; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: What happened to his brother?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Was it just Skorlinski over in his car?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is that the one referred to in your report as Deb, paren, unsure last name?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Now, before you -- You had never met Brendan; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Other than the fact that he was related, perhaps, to Steven Avery or some of the other members of the Avery family that you had visited with the day before, you -- you didn't know anything at all about him, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you know how old he was?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And where did you get that information?

MR. EDELSTEIN: No. I'm talking about before you talked with him?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Steven didn't tell you that he came up there in the -- with his nephew accompanying him, did he?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't know what grade he was in?

MR. EDELSTEIN: No. I'm asking you, did you know, prior to making contact with him on Sunday, November 6, what grade he was in?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't know what school he went to, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You had no idea whether you were dealing with what we would -- what you might typically call an average teenager or a teenager with any type of limitations, is that a fair statement?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You had no idea about, uh, his ability -- what his memory skills were, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Correct. You had no idea about his ability to perceive and understand, um, language; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Is it fair to say that during the course of your conversation with him, that you came to the conclusion that, um, he did have some difficulty sometimes understanding the question that was being asked of him?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You don't agree with that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Mr. Fallon asked you about his demeanor. You had never been around this young man before, had you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You had no idea what he acted like when he was playing a video game, for example?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing, uh, with a teacher, for example?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing with a person like yourself? Of a -- an authoritative figure?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you told him you were a police officer; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Before he got into the police cruiser that you were driving, which I guess is unmarked; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. There's no cage in the back?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. How much time elapsed from the time of the stop until you got him into the backseat of your Taurus?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, yes.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Ballpark?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. You had some conversation with him before he got in there? I'm talking about the back of your car.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Right.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So he agreed, sure, I'm going to come over, and you guys direct him into the backseat? You're in the front, Baldwin's on the passenger side --

MR. EDELSTEIN: -- correct? Okay. And you've got this audio, um, recorder -- digital audio recorder stuck, you said, in a visor? Which one was it in? Right or left?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Was it visible?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't tell him it was there, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You first asked him something to the effect, last Monday, do you remember seeing this girl at all? Did you have a photograph that you showed him?

MR. EDELSTEIN: What became of that photograph?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you get that from someone in Calumet County? If you know.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is it fair to say that you, as well as Baldwin, were not pleased with the answers you received to some of your inquiries?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, I assume if somebody gives you what you consider to be a suspect answer, it's not going to please you, is it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well --

MR. EDELSTEIN: as an --

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) As an investigator, you're trying to get information?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And it's important to get the right information?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, if it's truthful, it would be right, wouldn't it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, do you believe that untruthful information is sometimes right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I'm not asking about pleasure. I'm asking how you perceived to be information. If it's truthful, it's right; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And if it's not truthful, it's not right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: 'It does not please you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Very good. Thank you. And you believed you were getting, at certain points during the course of this hour and twenty minutes, what you believed to be untruthful information; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And that did not please you; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you think your displeasure was evident to Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Your Honor, if I might respond?

MR. EDELSTEIN: This witness has testified about the demeanor of the defendant. Those are subjective characterizations that he places upon reactions. I believe we are entitled to inquire of this witness what actions he may have taken, whether he showed displeasure, his feelings, as that, obviously, may have affected how the defendant reacted. This jury is entitled to evaluate that for themselves.

MR. EDELSTEIN: I don't believe that this is beyond the scope.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Let me try it this way, Judge. Maybe we can save a little time.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Detective, I guess you would agree with me that you -- you have no degrees of any sort, education, or training, which gives you any specific authoritative ability to evaluate, um, why an individual may react to you in the way they do? Is that a fair statement? You're not a psychologist?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And certainly not a child psychologist?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. How far into the interview that took about an hour and twenty minutes, um, did you become confrontational with Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: May I approach, Your Honor?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Detective, if you would, and ignore all the colorful marks on here, does this look to be -- these two pages look to be -- or three pages, I'm sorry, look to be a copy of the official supplemental report from the Marinette County Sheriff's Office, Investigative Division, that you prepared?

MR. EDELSTEIN: That's a yes?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And for reference numbers for the record, it's Complaint 0-5-4-1-2-0; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And I'm making reference to page one of three right now?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) If you would, take a look at the first paragraph of page two of your report and just read that to yourself. Does that help you, uh -- If I asked you the same question again about what time during the course of this hour and twenty minutes you got confrontational, would it change your answer?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you not write, when I confronted Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: For the record, this has been marked as, uh, Exhibit 202; is that right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is that --

MR. EDELSTEIN: This is the same report we were just talking about?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, you wrote in that report that you confronted Brendan; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is that different than my understanding of being confrontational?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Help me out. Explain it to me. Explain it to this jury.

MR. EDELSTEIN: And which -- And which ---

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) And which answer was that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Were you present -- If -- If you know, who was the first one to ask Brendan, if anyone, be it you, Baldwin, or Skorlinski, whether or not he remembered anybody taking photographs of the van?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you were present when Baldwin said, you remember that girl taking that picture. You're getting off the bus. It's a beautiful day. Were you there when -- during that exchange?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, in any event, you remember it; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. You're getting off the bus. It's a beautiful day. It's daylight. And everybody sees her, comma, you do, too. Did you mean to suggest to him that these are facts that he should affirm by the way you asked that question?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I think you told us already that you did have a chance to review the transcript from the audio?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Can you take a look at what I have in front of you here? Does this look to be a copy of that transcript?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Directing your attention to page 17 at the bottom where it's indicated, Detective Baldwin, yeah, you remember that girl. That portion? You thought maybe you said that? But if this indicates Baldwin, do you have any problem with it? Do you remember who said it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And would you agree with me that this is really the first time, during the course of the conversation, where somebody suggests to him the girl's taking pictures?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You had asked him about taking the pictures earlier?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And you were the first one who brought that up?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Then there was some follow-up by Baldwin; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. But during the time that you first brought it up -- Or, I'm sorry. That -- Yeah, that you first brought it up, and then when Baldwin brought it up, the question being, from yourself, the girl taking pictures. You remember that. Okay. Would you agree that that's how it was asked?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you asked him in that fashion?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You indicated after his initial affirmation that he saw the girl taking pictures. Help me out and show me where that is -- precedes that in the transcript?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Yeah.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) All right. So you were incorrect when you said it was after his initial affirmation of seeing the girl take pictures?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Well, nobody's perfect. We all make mistakes. Won't hold that against you. So you're the first one that really brought it up?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. As long as I'm here, so I don't have to chase back and forth, between the first time you brought it up, you make the statement that's -- it's not on -- not everyday somebody's taking pictures of a van; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: The question then becomes, how many people are on the bus?

MR. EDELSTEIN: He answers the question; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: The next question, as far as taking pictures, comes from you. The girl taking pictures. You remember that. Right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. He says, well, I wasn't looking at. And then it looks like he was interrupted; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: That's fine.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) In -- in any event, there's no answer to that? He does not affirm or deny what you're asserting; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And if this is based upon the video everybody just saw, and you com -- I -- did -- had -- did you ever personally compare this to the -- to the audio?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And it's accurate?

MR. EDELSTEIN: But he never either affirmed or denied what you first suggested to him about the girl taking the pictures?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Not until it's brought up again, especially in this ex -- right in this little exchange, next, not by yourself, but by Baldwin?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And his answer was, maybe. I don't know. Right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And that's when Baldwin said, Brendan, come on, as if to suggest that Brendan was withholding something?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Yes, sir.

MR. EDELSTEIN: If you're disappointed about something, Detective, would you be displeased?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Did you not --

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) You told him, did you not, Brendan, and I quote, you're not going to. disappoint us. Do you remember telling him that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you remember asking him, did you see her standing there taking a picture?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Counsel, I'm on page 18.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) And he -- he did answer, yeah?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And then you -- did you immediately thereafter ask him -- and if -- if you don't remember, I'll come back, but did you ask him, why didn't you tell me that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you suggested to him the reason that he, perhaps, didn't tell you that, was that he was scared? Because you phrased it as, are you scared? Right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is there some reason you didn't offer up as an explanation for his failure or inability to answer your earlier question that, perhaps, he has a bad memory?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't know anything about him other than the brief contact you had that morning; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right.

MR. FREMGEN: Just one moment, Judge.

MR. FREMGEN: Judge, if I may, it's 3:00. I believe Mr. Edelstein still has some significant amount of cross, and the State will have a couple of questions. Court want to take a break?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Thank you.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Detective O'Neill, during the course of one hour and twenty minutes, roughly, would you agree or disagree with me that both, yourself, as well as Skorlinski and Baldwin, told Brendan that you believed that he was being told what to say?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. And when you say you brought it up, you, basically, flat out told him, you're being told what to say. Right? If -- if it'll help speed it along, Detective, I think that Mr. Fallon brought over --

MR. EDELSTEIN: What's been marked as 203, does that look to be a copy of the transcript that we were looking at before?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Same one that you compared to the audio?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And best you know, that's accurate?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Can you tell this jury how many times between you, Skorlinski, and Baldwin that that assertion was presented -- sor -- to Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Can you tell this jury how many times during the course of an hour and twenty minutes interview that you had with Brendan that lies were told to him by either you, Skorlinski, or Baldwin?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Would you turn to page 33, please? Toward the bottom of that, uh, specifically, Detective Baldwin, the statement is made to Brendan, quote, she needs medicine -- medicines on a daily basis, okay? Do you see where I'm talking about?

MR. EDELSTEIN: It's not true, was it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Well, I don't want to go down the please, displease rows again, but can you tell me the difference between standard -- That what you said? Standard deception practices and a lie?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Would you agree with me that a lie is something that's not true?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I'm sorry. Could you repeat your answer?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay.

MR. EDELSTEIN: I'm trying to understand whether -- when you used the phrase "deceptive practices" --

MR. EDELSTEIN: -- whether -- Let me ask it this way. In your business, does a deceptive practice contain intentionally false information that is conveyed to another person?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I'm not asking what's allowable. I'm asking what it is?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Did -- Did you understand my question?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. When the statement was made to Brendan, quote, she needs medicine on a daily basis, you acknowledge that the statement was made; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you acknowledge, also, that when it was made, neither you nor Baldwin had any basis for believing that that was a true statement; isn't that also correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. You, Baldwin, and Skorlinski implored him to tell you the truth; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: In addition to the deceptive practice, lie, misrepresentation, however you want to characterize it, about the medicine, it was also suggested to Brendan, in a similar fashion, that his brother was looking out the kitchen window. Do you recall that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I'll have to find it, Judge. I know it's in here.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) Page 30, please? You see at the bottom there, Detective, uh, by Baldwin, you and your brother both? It's the third entry from the bottom.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. It recites, you and your brother both sat there and looked out the window at her. Right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You and -- You had no basis for believing that to be true, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well --

MR. EDELSTEIN: right. You were in and out of the vehicle during this hour and twenty minutes; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Um, it was November. Do you remember what the temperature was that day?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Give me a range. If -- if you don't remember, that's fine.

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Was the heater on in your vehicle?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you remember if Baldwin turned it off because Brendan asked him to? Or turned it down?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So if it happened, it might have happened when you were out talking to Skorlinski?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. When you got out, that's what you were doing, weren't you? You were going back to talk to Skorlinski?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you were sort of reporting into Skorlinski what the progress was as far as, uh, gaining any information from Brendan; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Do you know how many times that you told Brendan that he was not telling the truth?

MR. EDELSTEIN: But you acknowledge that it happened on multiple occasions during the course of this hour and twenty minutes; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well -- Now, you testified on direct that I think when Mr. Fallon first started having you explain your involvement in this matter, I believe you said the information that you had was minimal. Do you remember that testimony?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Um, but, actually, you had certainly not every piece of information but you knew more than just name, rank, and serial number, so to speak, didn't you? You had some very --

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) -- specific details?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. That's fine.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) For example, Detective, you knew that a vehicle had been found on the Avery property?

MR. EDELSTEIN: And you knew that that vehicle, uh, had been checked by a registration, and VIN, and all that, and that it was Teresa Halbach's?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So you -- you presumed that that was, in fact, the case?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. And, in addition to that, you also knew that, uh, the vehicle had been, in some respect, uh, apparently, concealed?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. You knew that Teresa Halbach worked as a freelance photographer; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You knew that she worked, uh, with the AutoTrader Magazine.

MR. EDELSTEIN: You knew that she had, uh, been at the Avery property, or was scheduled to be at the Avery property, on the 31st of October?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You knew a bus driver had reported seeing her at the Avery property on the 3lst of October?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Any other particular details that you may have known where we can judge whether your answer on the minimal is a good one or a bad one?

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) You testified -- If you'll bear with -- with me a second, I need to find this in the transcript. You testified that you made no sort of promises to him; right? Do you recall that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you make any promises to him?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Detective, just so I don't have to go through each individual present, did -- did you, or either Skorlinski or Baldwin, in your presence, make any promises to Brendan?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Didn't someone tell him that, um, no matter what he said, or something to that effect, that he was not going to jail?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Directing your attention to page 36. At the bottom. Four lines up.

MR. EDELSTEIN: You said, okay, why did you not tell us the truth about when you saw her leaving? Answer: I was scared. Right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is there some reason -- Well, if -- What was the very next thing that you said in response to his assertion he was scared?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Let me stop you right there. So you wanted to get beyond this issue of being scared. Is there some reason you didn't explore that more if your goal is to gather as much information to get to the truth of what happened? Why it happened? Who did what?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Why did you tell him, then, okay, let's get beyond being scared?

MR. EDELSTEIN: With what? I'm sorry.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, I take that to mean that -- Let me ask you this: Isn't it true that during the course of the hour -- hour and twenty minutes, despite him saying several times he was scared, you, Skorlinski, or Baldwin never really inquired any further about that? What were you scared of? Why were you scared? When did you become scared? You never -- You guys never had -- went into that, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Well --

MR. EDELSTEIN: Maybe we'll find that in a second. I don't want to get off 36, though, but let's go back to this issue of promises. At the second to the last entry on that page, Detective, right after getting past being scared, um, what does -- you told him, in fact, um, get beyond the idea of getting in trouble and going to jail because that's not going to happen. That's what you told him; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Isn't that a promise? Aren't you promising him that he's not going to jail?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Doesn't answer my question. Did you tell him he wasn't -- that -- quote, going to jail because that's not going to happen? Did you or did you not tell him that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you construe that as a promise to him?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is it fair to say that during the course of the interview, that you or the others suggest to him, uh, potential reasons why Teresa could be missing? For example, an accident?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is it fair to say that during the course of the interviews, that you, Skorlinski, or Baldwin suggested to him alternatives, uh, such as mistake?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you probe into Brendan when he indicated that sometimes he gets shy when he's talking to people he doesn't know?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Would it be fair to -- to characterize that -- during the course of the interview, that the three of you, at various times, attempted to increase the emotional feeling of guilt in the mind of Brendan Dassey?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Would you agree or disagree with me that during the course of the hour and twenty minutes that you, Baldwin, Skorlinski spent with Brendan Dassey, that there was a conscious effort to increase in his mind his belief and feeling of guilt?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Could you go to page 40?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Yes, please. Fifth entry from the bottom? You were there, and Baldwin said as follows: You feel guilty right now that you didn't help that girl. Correct? You see where I'm talking about?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I see the glasses you got during the break.

MR. EDELSTEIN: In fact, the very next statement made by an officer, and I'm just jumping down two lines there, again, as Baldwin, where he says, I can see in your eyes that you feel terrible about something. Right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Is that not a -- Did -- Did you and Skorlinski ever discuss, uh, how you might appeal to or cause Brendan to think that he was guilty of something in order to try to get some information?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, you indicated you made no notes at the time of the interview; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You produced, uh, the supplement report that we talked about, uh, sometime after that; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: So if it was dated 11/11, about five days later?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And you didn't use your handy dandy little digital recorder that you had up on the visor to make notes of this interaction with Brendan on the way back to either, uh, your home, or wherever you left when you did leave, uh, to help you prepare the report; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: So you're having to rely entirely upon your memory when you described his demeanor; correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And that's about 16 months ago; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. But you acknowledge there's nothing at all in your report about his demeanor?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Isn't it true that the first individual to state or suggest that Teresa Halbach went into the Steve Avery trailer was a police officer, as far as your interactions with Brendan on this date?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So it's not something that he came up with in response to a question, that, well, for example, I saw her when I got off the bus and I saw her go into the house?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. That notion or that concept was promoted to him, uh, somewhat of a theme throughout this interview, wasn't it?

MR. EDELSTEIN: You don't agree with that?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. But you acknowledge that it was a police officer who first brought that alleged fact up?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. In fact, it happened more than once, didn't it? That very notion that she went into the trailer?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you understand the difference between an open-ended question and a leading question, don't you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Every time that that concept was brought up, i.e., she went into the trailer, it was done ina leading and suggestive fashion; agree or disagree?

MR. EDELSTEIN: I can --

MR. EDELSTEIN: Just let me do it this way.

MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) When you're conducting an interview, you oftentimes lead the interviewee; correct? Know what I'm saying, don't you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Pard me?

MR. EDELSTEIN: If a question suggests the answer, do you think it's leading?

MR. EDELSTEIN: During the course of the contact with Brendan, when he was questioned, if he's asked the question, and I make reference, for example, to page 31, about halfway down, Brendan, she went into that trailer, didn't she? Is that a leading question or is it not a leading question?

MR. EDELSTEIN: It is a leading question?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Correct?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. That's all for now. Thank you.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Asked and answered and suggestive, Your Honor.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Your Honor --

MR. EDELSTEIN: -- object to the leading nature.

MR. EDELSTEIN: No, that's fine, Your Honor.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Just very briefly.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Uh, Detective, um, while they get that up on the screen so the jury can see that picture, um, where did that picture come from? Do you know?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Pard me?

MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Um, Mr. Fallon asked you if that fairly depicted the condition, demeanor of the defendant, but he's sitting at the kitchen -- I'm sorry. The -- the physical attributes. Um, when you talked to him, um, you didn't get any information from him about height, weight, anything like that, did you?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Um, other than that hour and twenty-minute contact, that was really -- that's -- that's really the extent of your total contact with him throughout your participation in this investigation; right?

MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. That's all.

MR. EDELSTEIN: Your Honor, we would move, uh, 202 and 203.

MR. FREMGEN: That's correct.