6.JoEllen Zipperer — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
310 linesCOURT CLERK: Please remain standing, raise your right hand.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: My name is JoEllen Zipperer, Z-i-p-p-e-r-e-r.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Good afternoon, Mrs. Zipperer. The questions that I have for you relate to incidents that occurred on the 31st of October of last year, 2005. Let me first ask you, Mrs. Zipperer, where do you live?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: 4433 County Trunk B in Manitowoc.
MR. KRATZ: Is that residence near any intersections, any major roads?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Near 310 and B.
MR. KRATZ: So your residence is near Highway 310; is that right?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Who do you live there with, Mrs. Zipperer?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: My husband and my daughter and my grandson.
MR. KRATZ: If we all promise not to call you, Mrs. Zipperer, could you give us your home telephone number, please?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: 682-5719.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you. On the 31st of October, 2005, do you remember having contact with a young lady at your residence?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes, I do.
MR. KRATZ: First of all, could you tell the jury about what time you had contact with this young lady?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Mid-afternoon.
MR. KRATZ: Do you know any closer time to that, anything more specific, or do you not recall?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Not exactly, I think it was maybe around 3:00. I'm not sure exactly. I was outside working, so.
MR. KRATZ: Do you know for sure, or are you guessing, Mrs. Zipperer?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I'm just estimating that it was around mid-afternoon.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. Could you tell me what this young lady looked like?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: She was shorter than I am. She was slender, petite, young.
MR. KRATZ: Did you have any conversation with this young lady?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: Do you know why she was there or can you tell the jury why she was there?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: She was taking a picture of a car that we had for sale.
MR. KRATZ: Did this young lady identify herself; did she tell you what her name was?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't remember that she told me her name.
MR. KRATZ: After watching the news, or a couple days after having contact with this young woman, did you find out or figure out who it was that was at your residence?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And do you remember who that was?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Who was that?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: It was Teresa Halbach.
MR. KRATZ: I show you a picture which has been received as Exhibit No. 5, just so that we're all sure, if you look to your right, is that the young lady that was at your residence on the 31st?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes, it was.
MR. KRATZ: Mrs. Zipperer, can you tell the jury if you remember what this young lady was wearing?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: She was wearing a dark jacket, waist length. I think she had jeans and she had brown hiking boots. Hiking shoes, not boots. They were shoes.
MR. KRATZ: All right. When you had contact with this young lady, how long was it that you spoke with her?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: About 15 minutes she was there.
MR. KRATZ: After taking the pictures or after finishing her business there, can you tell me what she did?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: She came to talk to me, with some papers. She told me that I should give them to my husband and he should look them over and decide if he wanted to go ahead and put the car in the magazine. And if he did, the picture would be already taken and then all he had to do was call her the next day or whenever he decided to put it in the paper, the magazine.
(Exhibit No. 26 marked for identification.)
MR. KRATZ: Mrs. Zipperer, I have handed you what's been marked for identification as Exhibit No. 26. It's a bag full of materials; do you recognize that bag?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And do you recognize the materials or the papers that are inside of it?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Were those the materials or the papers that Teresa Halbach left for you or gave to you after you had your transaction with her?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: You can just kind of pick one of those things up. First of all, let's start with the Auto Trader Magazine; is there a magazine in there? Is that right?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Mm-hmm.
MR. KRATZ: Would you show that to the jury, please.
(Witness shows the jury.)
MR. KRATZ: Is there something in those papers called a bill of sale?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Would you show that to the jury, please.
(Witness shows the jury.)
MR. KRATZ: And is there also a for sale sign in there?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Could you show us that, please.
(Witness shows the jury.)
(Exhibit No. 27 marked for identification.)
MR. KRATZ: You can put them back into the bag, if you will. I have now given you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 27. It's a photograph, but it may be a little easier for the jury to see what we're talking about. Can you tell us what Exhibit 27 is, please.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I'm not sure what this is.
MR. KRATZ: You don't know what that's a photograph of?
MR. STRANG: I don't have any quarrel that it's a photograph of the items in Exhibit 26.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ You were just holding those items, weren't you, in Exhibit 26; isn't this a picture of the things that are in Exhibit 26?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Oh, yes.
MR. KRATZ: A for sale sign, a bill of sale and an Auto Trader Magazine?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you, counsel.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Mrs. Zipperer, after speaking with this young woman, did she tell you where she was going, where she was heading next?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, she didn't.
MR. KRATZ: How long was she there?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: About 15 minutes.
MR. KRATZ: This young lady seem upset to you?
MR. KRATZ: How was her demeanor; in other words, how did she act towards you?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: She was very nice. She was pleasant and friendly. She smiled, a couple things we talked about, she smiled.
MR. KRATZ: Now, prior to her arrival, Mrs. Zipperer, do you recall receiving a phone call from this young lady?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: That day?
MR. KRATZ: Yes.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: She left a message that she was having trouble finding our house, but I was outside so I didn't hear it until later, after she was gone. But she found the place. She just told me that she was having trouble finding it. And then she asked me if that was the right house. I said, yes. And she asked me if it was okay if we took a picture of the car. And then I showed her how to get to it. And then she went by herself to take the picture.
MR. KRATZ: When she told you that she found the place or when she indicated that she had been lost before she got there; did she indicate how long she was looking for your residence or how long she had called you before she got there, anything like that?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, she didn't.
MR. KRATZ: Now, was this a vehicle that you were selling or somebody else?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: My grandson was selling it.
MR. KRATZ: So you didn't have anything to do with the sale of this car; is that right?
MR. KRATZ: You were just the one that spoke with Ms Halbach; is that right?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Did you see her leave?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, I did not see her leave.
MR. KRATZ: Mrs. Zipperer, after your brief contact with Ms Halbach, did you have any further discussion with her or did you ever talk to this young lady again?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, I did not.
MR. KRATZ: I think that's all I have, then, Judge. I would move 26 and 27 at this time.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. STRANG: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Twenty-six and twenty-seven are admitted. Mr. Strang.
MR. STRANG: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY STRANG:
MR. STRANG: Mrs. Zipperer, I have several questions for you, too. You were out working in the yard so you weren't clear on the passage of time that afternoon, as I understood you?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: When she came?
MR. STRANG: Right.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Not exactly, no, I was outside and it was estimated mid-afternoon.
MR. STRANG: Sure. And by mid-afternoon, possibly it could have been as early as say 2:30 or something like that?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Could have been. She -- She had a time that she was trying to find our house on our message -- our answering machine.
MR. STRANG: Right. But you heard that message only later, correct?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: I'm sorry. This is a strange place, nods of heads don't work as well here as they do outside. So you didn't hear the message until sometime later, after she left?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: In the evening I heard it.
MR. STRANG: So I guess mid-afternoon could have been 2, 2:30 possibly?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Could have been.
MR. STRANG: Could have been 3:00?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Could have been.
MR. STRANG: Could have been 3:30 or a little after that, something like that, but sometime in the middle of the afternoon?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: That's the best you can do for us today?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Fair enough. And what sort of yard work was keeping you busy that afternoon?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I was outside raking.
MR. STRANG: So it's the kind of thing where either you weren't wearing a watch or you weren't worrying about the time?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, I don't wear a watch.
MR. STRANG: Now, you folks are -- your address is actually on County Highway B?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: County road B. Okay. Mr. Kratz may have asked you this and I was jotting a note and maybe didn't hear it, but if you continue going north on county road B; do you come to Highway 147?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: Not too far away, right?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: It's about 10 minutes from our house.
MR. STRANG: To the north of B, right?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: And if you go left on 147, before too long, do you come to the Avery Auto Salvage on your left?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't know where that is. I was never there.
MR. STRANG: Okay. All right. Are you -- At county road B and Highway 147; is that roughly the Mishicot area?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: And you are pretty much due north of the City of Manitowoc?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: All right. Now, you didn't see from which direction this young woman came to your house?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, I didn't.
MR. STRANG: You didn't see which direction she left your house from?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I did not.
MR. STRANG: Okay. You came in for supper time?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I did?
MR. STRANG: Yes, back to the house.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: And your husband, George, came home?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: Your grandson, this was his car?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: His name is Jason?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: He was home too?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I'm not sure when he came home.
MR. STRANG: Sometime that evening, or in any event he stays with you?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Were you -- Were you there, nearby, on the evening of November 3, 3 days after this, Thursday, November 3, sometime shortly after supper when your husband, George, got a telephone call from a sheriff's detective?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I could have been.
MR. STRANG: Do you remember that call?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I think so.
MR. STRANG: Actually -- And then later on in the evening, pretty late, about 9:40 at night, a second call came in from a sheriff's detective?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: Someone in Calumet County both times? Do you remember that?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't remember which one it was.
MR. STRANG: But George was on the phone both times?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: And the first one, do you remember George raising his voice and getting angry?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: At the first one?
MR. STRANG: Yes.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: He could have.
MR. STRANG: When you say he could have, I'm wondering whether you remember that or that just sounds like something George might do on a bad day?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes, he does raise his voice sometimes.
MR. STRANG: Do you remember that occasion when the sheriff's detective called from Calumet and George raised his voice on the phone?
MR. KRATZ: Judge, I'm sorry, I didn't know that Mrs. Zipperer was involved in this call. Did she testify that she knew who was on the phone?
MR. STRANG: Yes.
THE COURT: I believe she did.
MR. STRANG: Right.
MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang)~ And Mrs. Zipperer, you weren't on the phone yourself?
MR. STRANG: But you were near George on his end, I mean, you were in the room or near George while he was on the phone?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I could have been in the house. I don't remember exactly which call. I don't listen always to what he talks to.
MR. STRANG: Mm-hmm. But do you remember a time when there was a great deal of news about Teresa Halbach being missing?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: All right. So this would have been that very night that it first made the news, three days after she was to your home, that Thursday; do you have that --
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: -- evening in mind?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: And I take it it's not often that a detective calls from the sheriff's department to your home?
MR. STRANG: Do you remember hearing your husband, George, after he raised his voice into the telephone, threatening that he was going to call his attorney?
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to object; this is clearly hearsay.
THE COURT: Let's -- Mr. Strang.
MR. STRANG: I'm not offering it for the truth; I'm offering it for the fact that it was said.
THE COURT: I'm not sure I discern the difference. You are offering it for -- because of the fact it was said.
MR. STRANG: Yeah, the verbal acts. In fact, I intend to show these were not the truth -- were not being offered for the truth.
THE COURT: Well, let's -- I'm not -- Let's step back a second. Foundationally, I know the witness testified about being aware of some calls, but I'm not sure if I'm tracking that she remembers a specific caller being there. So why don't you step back.
MR. STRANG: Sure. That's fair enough.
MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang)~ And I understand this is the better part of a year and a half ago, but do you remember your husband receiving a call on Thursday evening, November 3, 2005, which was the night that the news first reported Teresa Halbach missing?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't remember a specific date, no.
MR. STRANG: Do you remember the phone call that I'm describing?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I remember him talking to someone, but I don't know when.
MR. STRANG: Okay.
(Court reporter couldn't hear answer.)
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't know if I know who he was talking to.
MR. STRANG: Okay. And I'm not asking for the name of the other person. I understand you weren't on the phone. But this was the night that he would have received two phone calls, two separate phone calls from an investigator --
MR. KRATZ: Judge, I'm going to object. I want to be heard outside the presence of the jury. Counsel is testifying.
THE COURT: All right. We'll excuse the jury for a few minutes.
(Jury not present.)
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Kratz.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you, Judge. This is clearly a hearsay. And counsel injecting the facts in front of this jury, making comments like this is the night that the two investigators called you, not only calls for a hearsay response, but Mr. Strang is offering the testimony in lieu of this witness.
I don't see any exception to the hearsay rule. It is for the truth of the matter asserted, even if Mr. Strang's relevancy, if there is any, is the fact that an investigator called suggesting the fact that it was an investigator on the phone, elicits that hearsay response. It is improper, Judge.
THE COURT: Mr. Strang.
MR. STRANG: Why don't we excuse the witness so that we're not tainting her testimony by my response.
THE COURT: All right. Mrs. Zipperer, can you step out in the hall for a minute.
(Witness leaves the courtroom.)
THE COURT: Mr. Strang.
MR. STRANG: Thank you. First of all, I am leading the witness, this being cross-examination I'm suggesting to her the answer. The basis, a good faith basis, for the questions is indisputable.
I have one report from Corporal Lemieux of the Calumet County Sheriff's Department documenting her phone call. She doesn't give a time of the actual call; she only tells us that about 5:00 on Thursday, November 3, 2005, is when she begins working on the missing person investigation and then writes a report that sort of logs her activities that -- that evening. One of them being a call with Mr. Zipperer in which he becomes belligerent on the telephone.
And then I have the report of Investigator John Dedering of the Calumet County Sheriff's Department documenting his call later that same evening. He places the call at approximately 9:40 p.m. on Thursday, November 3, 2005, and describes, verbatim. His report says George was extremely belligerent initially and goes on from there.
I don't intend to offer Mr. Zipperer's comments for their truth. Indeed, the intent is to show that Mr. Zipperer told, first, Corporal Lemieux and, then, Investigator Dedering, a series of lies about his own activities; about Jason's activities; about whether the Auto Trader photographer was a trespasser on the property. Threatened to have the dog eat anyone who would come on the property; wanting Teresa Halbach arrested even after being told that she was a missing person; denying that he had contacted Auto Trader or arranged for photographs of the car.
So what I'm interested in is eliciting, not for the truth, but as relevant verbal acts, these statements that I believe she would have overheard.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz.
MR. KRATZ: Judge, the fact that Mr. -- Well, first of all, the fact that Mr. Strang has to ask this witness who she was talking to, that alone calls for a hearsay response, so there isn't any foundation. But the relevance, even if there was a hearsay exception, to the fact that Mr. Zipperer flies off the handle or indicates that Ms Halbach was a trespasser, or some other reason, I fail to see. And for both of those reasons, would ask that this question be excluded.
MR. STRANG: Now, she herself meets with Investigator Dedering later that evening at what he marks as 9:53 p.m. So he physically, then, comes to the residence, Investigator Dedering does. He talks with her, as well as her husband. So, again, that's why I believe she's there. And that's the background.
THE COURT: I think I understand the -- your objection to the hearsay exception being that you are not offering the statements for the truth of the matter asserted. But what's the relevance?
MR. STRANG: The issue here is whether the people investigating Teresa's death investigated without bias, investigated objectively, sort of followed the evidence where it led them.
When somebody who was, essentially, evenly placed with Mr. Avery, that is, both known to be appointments on the afternoon that Teresa Halbach is last seen; when that person becomes belligerent and uncooperative with the police, continues to be bellicose and uncooperative when told that this is a missing person and that the police need help; and then tells the police a series -- not one, not two, but a whole series of lies; it's relevant to whether the police, then, pursued that and said, gosh, we have somebody who would have been one of the last people to see her and he's lying to us about just about everything that's coming out of his mouth.
He is hostile. He is uncooperative. Perhaps he is worthy of some further investigation. I intend to show later that, in fact, Mr. Zipperer got little or no further investigation.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz.
MR. KRATZ: He can ask the police that, Judge. It shouldn't come in through Mrs. Zipperer, or call George Zipperer.
MR. STRANG: I don't know that I -- that I need to call witnesses to do this. Now, if he would rather I ask the police -- and, obviously, if Mrs. Zipperer really does not remember her husband's end of the conversation, then I will do it, with Investigator Dedering. I mean, I'm not --
THE COURT: Is the investigator going to be testifying for the State?
MR. KRATZ: He's right outside the door, Judge. He is probably going to be my next witness, with this line of questioning.
THE COURT: Given how little the witness appears to remember about the conversation, I'm not sure that it's necessary for the Court to rule on the objection. And if we have got other people here who are firsthand, maybe, Mr. Strang, if they say something that you feel this witness somehow might be in a position to clear up, you can consider bringing her back. But I don't see at this stage, based on what I have heard so far, that she remembers enough about it to offer anything probative.
MR. STRANG: And I will understand completely and entirely accept Mr. Kratz's polite refusal to answer this question, but I will ask -- I will put it to the Court and the Court can require Mr. Kratz, if it wishes, whether the State expects to call Corporal Lemieux.
MR. KRATZ: I don't know. Mrs. Zipperer is not done and I have some questions as well, so.
THE COURT: Is Mr. Zipperer scheduled to be testifying?
MR. KRATZ: He's on the witness list; I don't intend to call him. It would be cumulative for what Mrs. Zipperer is saying.
THE COURT: Well, at any rate, at this stage, Mrs. Zipperer doesn't seem to remember enough about the conversation. I think it's time to move on.
MR. STRANG: And that's fair and I understand I can do this through Investigator Dedering. I didn't have anything else for Mrs. Zipperer, so I can pass this back to redirect when the jury --
THE COURT: Very well.
MR. STRANG: -- is called back.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz, you do have a few questions?
MR. KRATZ: Just since Mr. Strang brought up her memory about the time, she does have a written statement about that.
THE COURT: All right. We'll bring the jury back in. We can bring the witness back in. Mr. Strang, I will ask you, for the record when the jury comes back in, if you have any further questions.
MR. STRANG: Sure.
(Jury present.)
THE COURT: You may be seated. Mr. Strang, do you have any further questions for this witness.
MR. STRANG: I do not have any further questions on cross-examination. Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz.
MR. KRATZ: Just briefly.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Mrs. Zipperer, after Teresa Halbach went missing, do you recall being interviewed yourself by an investigator with the Calumet County Sheriff's Department whose name was John Dedering?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't remember his name, but I was interviewed.
MR. KRATZ: A bald fellow, remember being interviewed by?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I can't remember if he was bald.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Mr. Strang asked you if today you recall the approximate time that Teresa was at your residence. And I believe, with Mr. Strang, you indicated that it was sometime in the afternoon, sometime in the later afternoon. Is that what you told him today?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Mid-afternoon.
MR. KRATZ: Do you recall providing Investigator Dedering with a written statement wherein you indicated the time that Teresa was out to your property?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I remember that day, yes.
MR. KRATZ: Do you remember what you wrote in that statement?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Not everything.
MR. KRATZ: If I showed you that statement, would that help refresh your memory about the time that she was there?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right. I think I have to have my other glasses, though.
MR. KRATZ: I'm sorry?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Julie has my reading glasses.
MR. KRATZ: We'll get those. In come the reading glasses.
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I'm sorry.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Now, Mrs. Zipperer, I don't want you to say anything, but I want you to just look at your written statement, that's Exhibit No. 28 that's been put in front of you. I want you to just read it to yourself.
Mrs. Zipperer, my associate is going to take that exhibit from you, going to take that away from you. And now I'm going to ask you, if after reading that statement if that refreshes your recollection about when Teresa was out to visit you that day?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes, it does.
MR. KRATZ: And what time, then, was she out to see you that day?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Between 2 and 2:30.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I have got, Judge. Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Strang, anything on recross?
MR. STRANG: I do.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY STRANG:
MR. STRANG: The piece of paper that the prosecution just showed you, that actually was something written by the police officer, correct?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right. I just told him and he wrote it down.
MR. STRANG: He wrote it down and then you signed it at the bottom?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: And you wrote the date on it?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Yes.
MR. STRANG: And that was, oh, six days or so after the young woman had come to your house?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: I don't remember the date that was on there.
MR. STRANG: Okay. It says November 6th, you don't have any reason to doubt that, do you?
MR. STRANG: Okay. And when the police officer asked you about time, were you doing what you were doing today, which is giving your best estimate of when this young woman showed up while you were raking leaves in the yard?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, I probably -- I was -- That was right because I was -- I just couldn't remember right today what exactly time it was.
MR. STRANG: Okay. But as I understood, you don't wear a watch?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: No, I don't.
MR. STRANG: You weren't wearing a watch on Halloween, 2005?
MR. STRANG: You were out in the yard raking leaves?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: And at that time, do you remember whether he suggested 2 to 2:30 or do you know why he wrote that down?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: That's what I thought it was on that day.
MR. STRANG: And as you sit here today, is that your best recollection, or mid-afternoon?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: What was on the paper, 2 to 2:30.
MR. STRANG: Okay. You are going to go with the paper?
JOELLEN ZIPPERER: Right.
MR. STRANG: Okay. Thank you.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Mrs. Zipperer, you are excused.
MR. KRATZ: May we approach, Judge.
THE COURT: Yes.
(Side bar taken.)
MR. KRATZ: State will call Ryan Hillegas, your Honor.
Janet, has 27 been received?
COURT CLERK: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: I move 28, Judge, although I'm quite certain it won't be received in its entirety, but to complete the record I think that it needs to be.
THE COURT: That is the last witness' written statement?
MR. STRANG: Yeah, it was just used to refresh recollection.
MR. KRATZ: Just -- Just for the purposes that it was used, Judge.
MR. STRANG: I don't think it gets admitted, but the record is clear that is was used; it was Exhibit 28.
THE COURT: So I'm not being asked to admit it, correct?
MR. KRATZ: Not -- No, not in its entirety, you are asked to receive it not to admit.
THE COURT: Very well, I will receive it.