7.Ryan Hillegas — Direct/Cross/Redirect
487 linesCOURT CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
RYAN HILLEGAS, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Ryan Hillegas, last name is H-i-l-l-e-g-a-s.
MR. KRATZ: You can back up just a little bit, Mr. Hillegas, since the microphone is certainly loud enough for you.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Hillegas, did you know a woman by the name of Teresa Halbach?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: How did you know Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I guess she was a long time friend. We had dated for five years or so, end of high school and early part of college.
MR. KRATZ: At some point, did you and Ms Halbach stop being boyfriend/girlfriend?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Did you remain on friendly terms with her?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: How often would you speak with her?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Maybe once every week, sometimes every couple, but definitely kept in touch every week or two.
MR. KRATZ: During the time period of October, 2005, were you aware of Ms Halbach's living arrangements?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And what were they, if you recall?
RYAN HILLEGAS: She lived in a house with a friend of ours, Scott Bloedorn.
MR. KRATZ: Scott was also a friend of yours; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And was it your understanding that Scott and Teresa had any kind of a romantic relationship?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, no romantic relationship.
MR. KRATZ: Just roommates?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Just roommates.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Hillegas, are you familiar with how close the residence that Teresa lived in was to her parents' house?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Where was it?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Her parents lived roughly a quarter mile down the road.
MR. KRATZ: And are you also familiar with the vehicle that Teresa drove at the time?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Could you tell us about that vehicle, please?
RYAN HILLEGAS: It was a Toyota RAV4, a blue-green color, combination blue-green.
MR. KRATZ: I show you what's been received as Exhibit No. 5; it's on the large screen. Is that the -- both the photograph of Teresa Halbach and also her RAV4?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Hillegas, when was the first time that you heard that your friend, Teresa, had gone missing?
RYAN HILLEGAS: It was Thursday, after Halloween, which would have made it the 3rd, I believe, of November, then.
MR. KRATZ: And on November 3rd, can you tell the jury what you did, please?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah, in the afternoon, I believe it was, I'm going to say around 3:00 or so, Scott had called me and said that Teresa's dad had went over and asked if he had seen Teresa. And Scott called me and I went over to the house that afternoon.
Basically, tried digging up any information on where she might be. We started calling her friends. We found a list of her friends on her computer with all their numbers. So we started calling all them to see if anybody had whereabouts. And then after that we printed off her cell phone records off the internet, just to see what calls she had made, or other numbers of friends we could find on there.
MR. KRATZ: Let me just stop you at that point. Mr. Hillegas, finding her cell phone records, how does something like that occur? How did you do that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, there were a couple of us that tried figuring it out. Basically figured out her password and made up a user name that worked and got into her phone records and printed it right off.
MR. KRATZ: Had you known at that time that she hadn't been seen since the 31st of October?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Basically, I knew that she was missing. I didn't know she hadn't been seen by anybody. But I knew that -- knew that she was missing or decided that she was missing at that point.
MR. KRATZ: After printing off or getting access to her cell phone records, I assume to her account, through her cell phone provider; were you able to provide that information to law enforcement authorities?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: You said that you had called some people; what kind of calls were you making?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, the -- I mean, we called all her friends and basically just said that, you know, we haven't seen her, and wondering whereabouts. None of those people really turned anything up for us. And, then, we had called a good list of, like, the last numbers she had called and numbers on her phone.
MR. KRATZ: Now, on the 3rd -- By the way, that would be the first day that she had been reported missing; is that your understanding?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: On the 3rd, were there other friends or other family members who were assisting you in the search effort?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes. Yeah, it was me, Scott Bloedorn, one of her girlfriends, Kelly Bitsen (phonetic) came over. I believe a little later another friend, named Lisa, was over as well.
MR. KRATZ: About how long that evening did you work on this project?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, for the good portion of the night, probably, I guess, until midnight, 1:00. We were calling friends and other people we didn't get a hold of and people that were finally returning calls later. Better portion of the night.
MR. KRATZ: The next day, the 4th, Friday, the 4th of November; did you become, again, actively involved in the search for Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Tell the jury what you did, please.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah, that afternoon, you know, it was probably late morning, but I had talked to the family. And they had arranged with the missing persons organization out of Appleton; they were printing up fliers, missing person fliers. And they just asked me if I could pick them up and arrange, you know, how we would get them out.
That was kind of the afternoon. I went and picked up the posters, probably early afternoon, noon, 1:00. And when I had gotten back, then, to Teresa's house, there was a good number of family members and friends who were waiting to, basically, find out what they can do and go pass the fliers out.
MR. KRATZ: I will show you what's been received as Exhibit No. 10; are these the missing person posters that you are talking about?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: About how many of those posters did you assist in not only having produced, but in distributing?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I'm going to estimate, but probably, geez, somewhere -- I don't know, probably between a thousand and 2,000, maybe 3,000. They were all over the place, I guess.
MR. KRATZ: Did you receive assistance from her employer, or at least one of her employers, Auto Trader Magazine?
RYAN HILLEGAS: To handle the fliers?
MR. KRATZ: Just to get information from them.
RYAN HILLEGAS: I never spoke with anybody from Auto Trader.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. An organization that did help you, though, and it's up in the top left hand corner of this exhibit, is something called YES, Youth Educated in Safety; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: This missing persons search organization, did they provide you with some technical and other assistance?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: The distribution efforts, that is, getting these posters out; who was in charge of that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I guess I was kind of the unofficial leader, coordinator, of the effort, if you could call it that.
MR. KRATZ: How many people did you have to help?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, when I got back to the house that day, there were -- I'm estimating here, but probably between 30 and 45 people. That was on just the first afternoon, when we handed them out. But then we had contacted truck stops and faxed fliers.
We had people just stopping by throughout the day to pick up fliers. Just to put them out anywhere we could. I know there were people out pretty late on Friday night and still putting up fliers and driving city to city.
MR. KRATZ: Did your efforts, Mr. Hillegas, include the media?
RYAN HILLEGAS: A little bit, yes.
MR. KRATZ: And this information -- information about the missing person, where she was last seen and those kind of things, was that distributed to the media, as far as you know?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah. And they had fliers too, so ...
MR. KRATZ: Now, with you being the -- whether you want to call it official or unofficial, being the coordinator of this citizen search effort on that Friday, that is, the day after Teresa was reported missing; what other efforts were being developed to try to find Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, after Friday and we had got the posters out basically kind of through the instruction of the YES Foundation and their recommendations, first they wanted us to get fliers out and make as many people aware as we could, all about Teresa and that she was missing. After that, it was kind of to go a little more and basically to search.
Friday night after the posters were done being handed out, we had gotten back and me and Scott, for most of the night decided -- we kind of planned a road search, I guess you could call it, where everybody got in their vehicles and drove certain parts of roads and maps that we had plotted out for them, just to make sure we covered everything, but ... So Friday night we pretty much planned on an all day road search that went on Saturday, with volunteers again.
MR. KRATZ: Well, Friday night you said that you were making some maps; how was that done?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Satellite imagery off the internet mostly, otherwise just Map Quest.
MR. KRATZ: Maps of what?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Maps of, you know, the areas we wanted to search. We kind of blew up smaller portions so you could see the roads better and county highways out in the Manitowoc area near the Averys, any kind of county highway. Basically, we tried to cover anything from Hilbert to Green Bay, all the way to the lake. Pretty much covering as much land as we could.
MR. KRATZ: Well, this was a citizen search effort; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: In other words, family members and friends and very -- very much so just a citizen effort coordinated by you; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Let me ask you something, Mr. Hillegas, why would you center or why would you direct some of your search efforts around the Avery property?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, mostly for the fact that, you know, the media had covered so much of it. You know, all you heard about was around the Avery property. And I believe at that point we had known that, you know, her last kind of whereabouts were in that neck of the woods.
MR. KRATZ: So even as an untrained law enforcement officer, you knew to look for the last place she was seen alive; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. It didn't strike you as being unfair to Mr. Steven Avery, did it?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Now, these physical searches, you said the road searches and things like that; how many people were involved in that effort?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, throughout the day on Saturday there were people kind of coming and going, people getting up, work late in the morning, still wanted to help. Estimate, say probably Saturday's effort was a little bigger than Friday, probably between 80 and 110 people, I would guess.
MR. KRATZ: All right. So over 100 of Teresa's friends and family and relatives were gathered to look for her Saturday morning; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: What time did you all convene and where did this happen?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Everybody met at Teresa's house. I believe everybody was there early, probably 6, 6:30, a good portion of them were there by about that. I would say between 6 and 7 is when everybody got there.
MR. KRATZ: Tell us about that morning; what happened that morning.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, everybody pretty much met in the driveway. Me and Scott, by that point in the morning, had all the maps arranged. But we had a large map that we printed out with kind of smaller sectioned areas that we had printed smaller maps out for everybody to use.
Basically had everybody line up and come in the back of the house. And they were to walk through, once they got in the kitchen, we kind of gave them an assignment, groups of one car or two, we would give the same map to and have them all cover the same area to make sure all the roads were all covered.
But everybody had an assignment. When they were done with their assignment, pretty much instructed to call back and we would give them a new assigned area to cover, one that hadn't been -- that we hadn't sent any people to yet.
MR. KRATZ: Just kind of a grid search?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Basically, yes.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Do you know Pam Sturm or her daughter, Nikole Sturm?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: How do you know Pam and Nikole?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I had met them Saturday morning. They showed up after the good majority of everybody else had left. But that was the first time I had met them.
MR. KRATZ: After, then, the first wave, if you will, of citizens got their maps and they went off to do their search; what did you and Pam Sturm discuss?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, Pam had showed up after pretty much the whole group of everybody had already left to search in the morning. And we had a good -- you know, so many people, we had a good portion of everything that we had divvied up. Good portion of that was already handed out to other people. Wasn't much area left to search yet.
And she just asked, basically came out and said, had anybody gone to the car yard yet, the Avery Salvage Yard. We just said, no, that we hadn't been sending anybody in there and she offered to and said she would be willing to and --
MR. BUTING: Objection, your Honor, hearsay.
THE COURT: Mr. Kratz.
MR. KRATZ: Not offered for the truth, Judge. It's where Pam eventually goes. I can certainly go on to another question. I'm not inquiring any further into conversations.
THE COURT: Assuming that witness is going to be testifying later, I will agree; I will allow it.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz)~ Before Pam left, then, to travel to the Avery Salvage Yard, was she provided a map or any other information?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes. Yes, I gave her a map.
MR. KRATZ: What other information was she provided, if you know?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I gave her a map about the area out there and how to get out there. Scott had borrowed her his camera just in case they were to find something.
MR. KRATZ: Do you know what kind of camera it was?
RYAN HILLEGAS: A digital camera, I don't know what brand.
MR. KRATZ: When you say provided them, who was with Pam?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Pam and her daughter.
MR. KRATZ: Nikole?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Nikole, yes.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Do you know about what time Pam and Nikole left, then, for the Avery property?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I'm going to estimate, but I would probably say somewhere between quarter to 8 and 8:00 maybe.
MR. KRATZ: Sometime later that day, without telling us the words or what you heard, but did you hear some results of what Pam and Nikole Sturm had found out at the location?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Even after Pam and Nikole's discovery, later on the 5th, did you and other citizens remain involved in search efforts?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Can you describe those for the jury, please.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, the car search on Saturday went all day, pretty much into the night again. And Saturday night, then, once everybody was done searching, we met back at the house and started planning our next endeavor to go on, I guess you could say.
MR. KRATZ: Let me -- Let me just stop you. After the car -- After the SUV was found, in this case; you kept searching, you kept your search efforts going?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Why?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, we hadn't found Teresa.
MR. KRATZ: Do you remember what locations your citizens searched for Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah. You know, we went through all the cities, neighboring cities around Manitowoc County. Sunday, we had started doing fields and parks and ditches next to the highways, any place that, I guess, something could or somebody could be put and, you know, not be visibly seen. But Sunday we started doing actual walk-throughs of land and property near the Averys.
MR. KRATZ: It's a hard question, Ryan, but you were looking for Teresa's body; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Did you continue to receive technical assistance in assigning citizens to this effort?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Who did you get assistance from?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, basically, the YES Foundation, again. We took any advice from them that we could, since Jay Breyer, who was, I guess, the leader of it, or the guy who runs it, he had seemed to have a lot of experience in missing person cases.
MR. KRATZ: Did you personally proceed near the Avery salvage property and did you engage in searches of that area?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Do you remember where you -- where you looked around there --
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: -- just briefly.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah, we -- we did, like Maribel County Park is near there. We did some private -- or public land that was pretty much adjacent to Avery property, but behind it all. Any field somewhere around there that were outside the police bounds that we could get to, basically we searched.
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Hillegas, was this all before human remains were found on the Avery property itself?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I believe so, yes.
MR. KRATZ: After you learned -- I assume you learned at some point that human bones and human remains were found; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: After that point, did you continue with your search efforts or did you call them off?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, we called the search off then.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I have of Mr. Hillegas, Judge. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. I think at this time we will take our afternoon break. We'll come back in 15 minutes.
Members of the jury, I will remind you, again, not to discuss the case during the break. We'll see you in 15 minutes.
(Jury not present.)
THE COURT: Ten to three, counsel.
MR. KRATZ: Thank you, Judge.
(Recess taken.)
(Jury present.)
THE COURT: Mr. Buting, at this time you may begin your cross-examination of the witness.
MR. BUTING: Thank you, your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY BUTING:
MR. BUTING: Mr. Hillegas, can you give me a little bit of background on how long you knew Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Sure. I met Teresa, I believe, when I was a freshmen in high school and I have known her ever since.
MR. BUTING: And did you grow up in the same general town, then, I take it?
RYAN HILLEGAS: She lived in St. John; I lived in Hilbert. We went to the same high school.
MR. BUTING: And then you went off -- How are you employed by the way?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I'm a registered nurse.
MR. BUTING: And where are you working right now?
RYAN HILLEGAS: In Milwaukee.
MR. BUTING: At various hospitals?
RYAN HILLEGAS: At Froedert Hospital.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And back in October of 2005, where were you working?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I was currently unemployed. I had just finished school.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So on October 31st, you were not working at all?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And where were you living?
RYAN HILLEGAS: At home with my parents.
MR. BUTING: Which is?
RYAN HILLEGAS: In Hilbert.
MR. BUTING: In Hilbert, okay. Now, you said that you used to date Teresa kind of on and off, or for how long were you on and how long were you off?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, we dated for a total of five years, I think. We broke up two or three times in the middle for short periods, maybe for a month at a time.
MR. BUTING: So when was the last time you would say when you broke up?
RYAN HILLEGAS: 2001, I believe.
MR. BUTING: Was that your initiative or hers?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Just kind of a general understanding, kind of both of us. We were just going separate ways, so.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And after that time, did you have any interest in renewing that nature of that kind of a relationship with her?
MR. BUTING: Now, Scott Bloedorn, was also a friend of yours, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Was he, back in October of 2005, your best friend?
RYAN HILLEGAS: One of them, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Would you -- When did he move in with Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know that.
MR. BUTING: Well, was it less than a year?
RYAN HILLEGAS: It was less than a year before that Halloween.
MR. BUTING: Eight or nine months sound about right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: It might be. I guess I'm not sure.
MR. BUTING: Okay. You have been over to that house before I take it, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: What's the layout of the house? How is it set up? How was it set up back then?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, Scott had -- Scott's room was upstairs. Teresa's was downstairs. It was kind of an -- almost an understanding; all Scott's stuff was upstairs and Teresa's was downstairs. They kind of had it split, shared a kitchen and the bathroom.
MR. BUTING: So they had sort of their own floors and separate bedroom on each floor?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: But they shared the kitchen and you said the bathroom, there was one bathroom they shared?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So they would see each other frequently, presumably, during the day? Is that a yes?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Sure. Yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And did you come over and visit Scott various times while he was living with Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And did you spend time over there; dinner, watching TV, or a movie or something?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Occasionally, yes.
MR. BUTING: Was it -- Well, I take it, then, from -- when you say that you talked with her at least every other week, or every week even?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: On the phone, or would you actually get together with her, or what?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Either on the phone, or I would see her at the house when I would go visit Scott.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So you were over there quite a bit during that last six months or so?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I wouldn't say quite a bit.
MR. BUTING: Once a week?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Occasionally, once a week, maybe.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Okay. Over that time, would it be fair to say that you became accustomed with Teresa's habits and routines, generally?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, I wouldn't say that.
MR. BUTING: Well, did you know, for instance, was she a homebody; did she like to go out?
RYAN HILLEGAS: She kind of did what she wanted. Sometimes I would go over there and, you know, not see her the three times that I stopped that week. And the following week I could go there and I would be there three nights in a row when she would be there every night, just depended.
MR. BUTING: Were you familiar with her circle of friends?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Most of them, yes.
MR. BUTING: For instance, she went to UW Green Bay, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And she worked in Green Bay?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: So she had a lot of friends in Green Bay?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And would she go out, socializing with those friends, if you know?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Did you ever go with her when she would socialize with that group of friends?
RYAN HILLEGAS: When we were dating, yeah. She was in Green Bay the first -- the last two years when we were dating, so, occasionally, then, I would go out with her and her friends, but other than that, not really.
MR. BUTING: Would you say she was a sociable person, generally?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: She liked to be around people?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: She liked to go to parties?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Liked to go to bars?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Particularly karaoke bars, I think, was one of her favorites?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I believe so, yes.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And in 2005, were there times when you would also go out with her to those kinds of places, either parties or bars?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't think I -- I think the only bar -- I maybe only went out with her once that whole year, probably just didn't share that with her.
MR. BUTING: And do you know whether Scott ever went out with her to bars or parties?
RYAN HILLEGAS: A few times. I don't believe it was too often.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And when she would be home, do you know whether she would have dinner there or whether she would eat out? You know, what did she do at home?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Occasionally she did both.
MR. BUTING: Did she and Scott have dinner together?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Not that I'm aware. I mean, maybe they sat down and ate a meal together, but.
MR. BUTING: So you are not that familiar with what the evening routine was; is what you're saying?
MR. BUTING: Okay. Do you know whether it was unusual for her to be out overnight during those last six months or so?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Occasionally she would. I know she would go to Green Bay and stay at a friend's house overnight.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Let me ask you about the weekend of October 29th and 30th, 29th being Saturday; did you see her or talk with her that day?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't believe I talked to her on Saturday. I don't think so.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did you talk with her or see her on Sunday?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And where was that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: At her house.
MR. BUTING: And how did that come about?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I had just stopped briefly. I was dropping something off for Scott and she was sitting there at her computer.
MR. BUTING: Do you know about what time that was?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: I mean, are we talking morning, afternoon, night?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: You don't remember at all?
MR. BUTING: And she was just sitting at the computer?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Did you talk to her at all?
RYAN HILLEGAS: A little bit, yes.
MR. BUTING: Now, the night before, Saturday night, was sort of Halloween weekend; there would be parties, bar parties, house parties, whatever. Did you chit chat at all, talk about that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: On Sunday we had just talked and she had mentioned that she had a cowgirl hat and she was going to dress up like a cowgirl. And that was pretty much the extent of it.
MR. BUTING: This was, I'm sorry, Saturday or Sunday?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Sunday.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did she talk about having gone out the night before, Saturday night at all?
MR. BUTING: Do you know from any other information whether she did go out Saturday night?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: Or Sunday night?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know that either.
MR. BUTING: You said that you distributed 1,000 to 3,000 posters?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Roughly.
MR. BUTING: And that she had all these friends and helping out, including friends in Green Bay calling. You called some friends; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: This was on November 3rd, when you called the friends, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That was Thursday, yes.
MR. BUTING: Yeah, Thursday. But you said none of those people were particularly helpful, giving you any information about her. Most of them hadn't seen her for awhile?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: With all those posters out, all that publicity, did anybody ever come forward and talk to you, tell you where Teresa was on Saturday night?
MR. BUTING: October 29th?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Not that I remember.
MR. BUTING: So that night is an unknown in her life; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know of what happened that night with her.
MR. BUTING: Be fair to say that Teresa had a private side as well, that you didn't know about?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, I don't think so. I don't think she had a private side that I didn't know about. We were pretty open with each other. We talked a lot.
MR. BUTING: Well, if she had gone out Saturday night with somebody, or some place, and you know nothing about it, would that surprise you?
MR. KRATZ: Objection relevance, Judge.
THE COURT: Mr. Buting.
MR. BUTING: I will withdraw it.
THE COURT: Very well.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ So the last time you actually saw Teresa was Sunday?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: You never talked with her on the phone after that?
MR. BUTING: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you never called her?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No. Well, that's not correct. I did call her somewhere in the middle of the week and I did not get an answer and her voice mailbox had said that it was full.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Do you remember what day that was?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, I don't.
MR. BUTING: Thursday, Wednesday?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I called her on Thursday when I realized she was missing, but I believe I called her once earlier in the week.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So when you first learned, you said it was Scott that came over; did he come over, or call you, or what did he?
RYAN HILLEGAS: He called me.
MR. BUTING: Called you and said that -- he said that he wanted your assistance, or what?
RYAN HILLEGAS: He just called and said that Teresa's dad had came over to his work site and asked him if he had seen her recently. And Scott had called me on his way home just asking if I had talked to her. Asking if I could come over and help.
MR. BUTING: Now, you said that -- Scott's work site? What is that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Scott worked construction. I don't know where his work site was, but usually they did kind of local house work.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Did you ask Scott if he had tried to call Teresa at all during the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: May have called, is that what you are saying?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know.
MR. BUTING: Did you think that it was odd that three or four days had gone by without Scott coming forward and saying, where is she?
MR. BUTING: That didn't strike you as odd at all?
MR. BUTING: Why not?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, they were kind of on differing schedules. Teresa worked for herself and Scott worked construction. So he would be up and out of the house by 5:30, 6 in the morning. A lot of times I know Teresa didn't get up and go to work until 9 or 10.
MR. BUTING: So did you know Scott's schedule?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Fairly well, yes.
MR. BUTING: But you didn't know where he was working, is what you are saying?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I didn't know what site they were on that day.
MR. BUTING: On any given day?
RYAN HILLEGAS: On any given day, for that matter. Occasionally I would know, just from driving by and seeing him on the side of the road working on a house, but.
MR. BUTING: Okay. What kind of construction did he do?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Rough work, rough framing.
MR. BUTING: Rough carpenter?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: Now, when you went over there, to her house, on Thursday; you said Scott had already found some kind of information or no?
MR. BUTING: What did you do first; how did you start to gather information about who to call?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I just started looking through all her records. She had filing cabinets set next to her computer. Kind of her business workstation, I guess. Just started looking through the files. Turned her computer on and there was actually a -- She had an icon that was named Teresa's friends. Clicked on that and her friend's basically popped right up with phone numbers.
MR. BUTING: Was this a laptop?
RYAN HILLEGAS: It was.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And what did you do first? You talked about going online with her phone records, or did you call friends first?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, we got the phone list of her friends and started calling them. And I guess you could probably say it kind of all went down at the same time. We were calling friends; it was me and Scott, and Kelly Bitsen was calling friends as well. And we were kind of working on getting her phone records at the same time.
MR. BUTING: How soon did Kelly Bitsen arrive? How long were you and Scott there together before she arrived?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I'm going to estimate and say between --
MR. BUTING: Six, something like that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: What's that?
MR. BUTING: She arrived like 6 or 7, something like that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah, she was there a few hours after I got there, I believe. She was one of the first people --
MR. BUTING: Okay.
RYAN HILLEGAS: -- that we called of her friends.
MR. BUTING: Now, tell me about this online search. You tried calling her phone and it was full, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Did you know her voice mail password?
MR. BUTING: Did you ever -- So you didn't call and listen to her voice mail at all?
MR. BUTING: Never?
MR. BUTING: Never did that day, or before?
MR. BUTING: Or since? Okay. And she had never shared her password with you for the online records either?
MR. BUTING: So you just went online to Cingular Wireless, or whatever, .com and just guessed her password.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, we -- me and Kelly Bitsen had just kind of figured that it would fairly be something relating to her sisters. I believe -- I think it was their birthdays that got into it for us. I'm not exactly sure about what the password was.
MR. BUTING: But you didn't know what her user name was.
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, I believe that automatically came up when you entered her phone number in, you just need the password.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And that's the first time you ever tried to search her phone record or use that password?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: Do you know if -- if anybody else knew her voice mail password?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know that.
MR. BUTING: Or if anybody else listened to her voice mails?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know that either.
MR. BUTING: All right. By the time that Calumet county investigators arrived, I take it you guys were pretty concerned about Teresa's well being, where she was?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you knew that it was important that you provide as much information, as accurate information as you could?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Did the police interview you and Scott together, or did they put you in separate rooms when they talked to you, or how did they do that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I believe we were -- I believe we were in the same room.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Now, did the investigators ask you any questions about the nature of your relationship with Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: And they learned that you were a former boyfriend, stayed good friends with her?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Well, I believe I just said that I was a friend of hers. I don't think I mentioned that I was an ex-boyfriend.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And they didn't pursue that and ask if you had ever had anything more than a friendship is that what you are saying?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I believe so. It came out eventually, I just didn't feel that it mattered.
(Court reporter coughing, asked him to repeat.)
MR. BUTING: Let me try again.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Ask it again, please.
MR. BUTING: Did the police ever probe further and ask if you had -- the nature of your relationship with her beyond whether there was ever anything more than friendship?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't think they really probed into that. I mean, I don't remember when it came out or who was the one that mentioned that we used to date.
MR. BUTING: Okay. But it wasn't talked about that night?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't believe so.
MR. BUTING: When they were trying to find out what was happening -- or what had happened to this missing person, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: And if Scott was there with you, then, did they ask Scott the nature of his relationship with Teresa?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah.
MR. BUTING: Did they ask any kind of probing questions about whether he was ever intimately involved with her?
MR. KRATZ: Objection relevance, Judge. Is this a Calumet County bias; that's my question?
THE COURT: Mr. Buting.
MR. BUTING: Investigative biases are relevant no matter who is doing the investigation involved in the case.
THE COURT: I don't know if this really falls under bias; I will allow the question.
RYAN HILLEGAS: Please ask me again.
MR. BUTING: (By Attorney Buting)~ Did the investigators probe the nature of Scott's relationship at all to see, you know, as to whether or not there was any kind of intimate relationship between the two of them?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't believe they probed into it. I believe he just said that he was a roommate and a friend.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So a single man living in a house with a single woman, but that was the extent of it, just roommates?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And as far as you knew, that was the extent of their relationship as well?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Scott never told you otherwise?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: Teresa never told you otherwise?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct as well.
MR. BUTING: And your recollection is that you don't know when your former boyfriend status ever came up; it was sometime down -- some several days later?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: Wasn't like the next day?
RYAN HILLEGAS: May have been. Like I said, I don't know when it came up.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So, going to the next day for a minute, now, let's just go to November 4th. You mentioned that -- Well, let me go back for a minute. You mentioned that you had this meeting, sort of on Friday -- on Thursday night, the 3rd. And that was you and Scott and Kelly, and is that it, or do other friends come over?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I believe her friend, Lisa, was over, but not until quite a bit later that night.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And so the plan was made to contact this organization, YES, the next day, make posters?
RYAN HILLEGAS: No, actually the family was in contact with YES.
MR. BUTING: Okay. So that was something that came up later?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: On the 4th, after you had all these posters made up; you had another meeting that -- that late afternoon or evening, Friday, to talk about where to go from here?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yeah, Friday -- Friday night, after the posters were done being handed out.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And you said that you downloaded satellite images and maps and were kind of trying to figure out how to divide up different areas, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And you were asked about why you directed any efforts towards the Avery area, on direct, by Mr. Kratz; do you recall that?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And I believe you said it was because the media had the information and the media was already seeming to focus on Mr. Avery; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't think it was Avery himself. I believe that it was just that we knew her last whereabouts were out in Manitowoc County.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And had you seen any interviews with Mr. Avery at that point, or any news people coming down and talking to people on the Avery property?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know if I had seen any interviews. I guess I was out putting posters up most of the day.
MR. BUTING: But you did know that by that time the word was out in the media that the last known place, at least that they thought the last known place had been at the Averys, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And so that would have been true for anybody's knowledge, not just yours, anybody watching the media?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Now, the next morning, then, when you started dividing up things, Scott was with you, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And was Scott helping to assign people different places?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And when the Sturm's arrived, you said that Scott had borrowed Pam Sturm a camera; is that right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Had lent, had lent her, given her a camera?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: A digital camera?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: He didn't give everyone of those members, Saturday morning, a camera, did he?
MR. BUTING: He just gave it to Pam Sturm, who he knew was going to go out to the Avery Salvage Yard?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: The only person he gave a camera to, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And during this entire missing person period, that is, before the RAV4 was found, did the police ever ask you for any kind of alibi for October 31st?
MR. BUTING: They never asked your whereabouts whatsoever?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't believe so.
MR. BUTING: Okay. Anybody, point blank, ever ask you, if you had any knowledge about her disappearance, or were involved in it?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know if they did it like that, like they were accusing me but, of course, people asked me if I had talked to her, or knew anything. And that's why I was there to help.
MR. BUTING: Okay. And, to your knowledge, did you ever hear the police ever ask Mr. Bloedorn, Scott Bloedorn, if he had an alibi for Monday, October 31st in the evening, late afternoon hours?
RYAN HILLEGAS: I don't know that.
MR. BUTING: So it would be fair to say that you weren't in any way treated like a suspect, that you could tell?
RYAN HILLEGAS: That's correct.
MR. BUTING: And even on the 5th, and thereafter, when the search narrowed into the Avery's area and surrounding areas, the police actually let you through some check points, along with some other searchers, you leading them to come and search the area, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: Within the perimeter of the area around the Avery property that they had made off limits to the general public, right?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: And was that true of Scott as well?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. BUTING: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Just so we're clear Mr. -- I'm sorry. Just so we're clear, Mr. Hillegas, the area that you were allowed access to was the outside of the Avery property itself, in other words, the surrounding properties, not within the salvage property; is that true?
RYAN HILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I have, Judge. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. You are excused.
MR. KRATZ: I call Pam Sturm, Judge.