3.Brendan Dassey — Cross/Redirect (Part 2)

MR. FALLON: Mr. Dassey, I have a few questions for you; all right?

MR. FALLON: First, let me ask this: How long does it take you to walk from the trailer, where you were living with your mom and your brothers, to your Uncle Steve Avery's trailer?

MR. FALLON: All right. You like to play video games; right?

MR. FALLON: As a matter of fact, when you get done with school, you would like to design video games?

MR. FALLON: You really enjoy working with them?

MR. FALLON: And you're pretty good with them?

MR. FALLON: All right. And, at school, you have just two special classes; right?

MR. FALLON: Well, you said you had both, um, mainstream and some special classes?

MR. FALLON: How many special classes did you have? Two; right?

MR. FALLON: Okay. Otherwise, you're in with the rest of the regular students; right?

MR. FALLON: Okay. Now, let me show you something. Exhibit 58. Do you recognize these?

MR. FALLON: All right. These are the blue jeans that you were wearing on the night of October 31?

MR. FALLON: All right. And these are the ones that you've just told your attorney that, on March 1, you went with Special Agent Fassbender to pick these up on your way to the Sheriff's Department?

MR. FALLON: Okay. These are the pants?

MR. FALLON: All right. You're telling us you washed them that night?

MR. FALLON: Did you wash anything else that night?

MR. FALLON: Just those pants?

MR. FALLON: All right. Now, you just told us that you were cleaning up the floor in the garage?

MR. FALLON: But you didn't get on your hands and knees to clean the floor?

MR. FALLON: Okay. In other words, you just put whatever cleaner down and you used your feet to mop up the stuff with the old clothes?

MR. FALLON: Is that right?

MR. FALLON: Okay. You're sure?

MR. FALLON: Okay. And you just told us that the pants didn't seem to get dirty? You didn't notice them being dirty?

MR. FALLON: And you had just put them on before you went over there?

MR. FALLON: Okay. Where did you get them from before -- when you changed your clothes?

MR. FALLON: In your dresser drawer?

MR. FALLON: Were they clean, then, when you put them on?

MR. FALLON: All right. If they were clean when you put them on, and you didn't notice them getting dirty, and you never got on your hands and knees, why did you wash them?

MR. FALLON: You usually wash your pants after wearing them for two hours?

MR. FALLON: You do laundry every night?

MR. FALLON: Mr. Dassey, you went over to your Uncle Steven's house at some point after school?

MR. FALLON: You didn't tell your mother that you went over there?

MR. FALLON: All right. Well, let me, um, play something for you, and I want to ask you a couple of questions; all right?

MR. FALLON: That was the conversation between you and your mother; right?

MR. FALLON: All right. Why didn't you tell your mother at 5:00 what you had seen earlier?

MR. FALLON: Was Teresa Halbach alive at 5:00, Mr. Dassey?

MR. FALLON: Never where, sir?

MR. FALLON: You never saw her there?

MR. FALLON: All right. Then, why is your mother asking you that question?

MR. FALLON: Where do you think she would have gotten the idea that you were there before 5:00, sir?

MR. FALLON: She came home about 5:00?

MR. FALLON: So at 5:00, you're home, your brother, Blaine, is still there, and you're there?

MR. FALLON: Your brother, Blaine, leaves at 5:15, 5:20?

MR. FALLON: Your mother leaves 5:20, 5:30?

MR. FALLON: And she leaves with Mr. Tadych?

MR. FALLON: All right. Mr. Dassey, let me ask you a question: In the interview you gave on March 1 with these two gentlemen here, you told them that your uncle's fiance, Jodi Stachowski, called; correct?

MR. FALLON: You told him that she called twice; correct?

MR. FALLON: All right. You told them that she called at 5:30?

MR. FALLON: How do you know that, if you weren't there?

MR. FALLON: He told you that?

MR. FALLON: What time did he tell you the other time?

MR. FALLON: I'm sorry?

MR. FALLON: How many times did she call that night?

MR. FALLON: How many times were you there?

MR. FALLON: Yeah.

MR. FALLON: I have something else I'd like you to listen to, sir. I have something else for you, sir. One moment.

MR. FALLON: Record should reflect that was about 14 minutes.

MR. FALLON: Yes. Uh, 11:37, 47, to, I believe it was about 11:50, approximately.

MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) All right. Mr. Dassey, you told the officers that you were there and Teresa was alive?

MR. FALLON: She was alive?

MR. FALLON: You made that all up?

MR. FALLON: You just happened to know Teresa's words?

MR. FALLON: How do you know what she said?

MR. FALLON: You made it up?

MR. FALLON: You made up the part that you raped her?

MR. FALLON: You made up the part that she told you not to do it?

MR. FALLON: To do the right thing?

MR. FALLON: And to tell your uncle not to do it?

MR. FALLON: You made that up?

MR. FALLON: Now, Mr. Dassey, didn't you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13 that you had gone over to your Uncle Steven's after school and before she came home?

MR. FALLON: You did?

MR. FALLON: And, again, on May 15, the first tape we played, she's asking you why you didn't tell her. Why didn't you?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell her you went over there, sir?

MR. FALLON: You lied to your mother as well?

MR. FALLON: And you lied to the police?

MR. FALLON: Are you lying -- you're lying today?

MR. FALLON: Didn't you tell your mother, when she asked you, when did you go over there, well, I went over earlier and then came home before you did.

MR. FALLON: You told her that; right?

MR. FALLON: All right. And she said, why didn't you say something to me then; right?

MR. FALLON: And you answered, I don't know, I was too scared.

MR. FALLON: You didn't tell your mother you weren't there, did you?

MR. FALLON: My question, young man, is you didn't tell your mother you weren't there; right?

MR. FALLON: That's not right?

MR. FALLON: You did not. Why?

MR. FALLON: Why did you let her believe that you did?

MR. FALLON: Now, speaking of these -- these lies, Mr. Dassey, on your direct examination, you told us that there was a fire that night; right?

MR. FALLON: But when you were interviewed up in Crivitz by Detective O'Neill, you remember the gentleman who testified a couple of days ago?

MR. FALLON: All right. You told him there was no fire that week; right?

MR. FALLON: So you lied to him?

MR. FALLON: Why did you lie to him?

MR. FALLON: You don't like cops. Why didn't you tell Detective O'Neill what you told us on direct examination today?

MR. FALLON: You didn't -- if you didn't do anything wrong, sir, why didn't you tell Detective O'Neill?

MR. FALLON: Your brother's interview was done much more quickly than yours; right?

MR. FALLON: On November 6?

MR. FALLON: In fact, he was done in about 10 minutes, maybe, 15, maybe?

MR. FALLON: All right. Now, in that second interview -- you just told us you were interviewed twice up in Crivitz area. On the second interview, you did tell them about a fire.

MR. FALLON: When did you tell them the fire happened that time?

MR. FALLON: Isn't it a fact you told them that the fire was Tuesday or Wednesday of that week and not Monday?

MR. FALLON: I want to play one very brief clip from this March 1 interview, sir. I'd like you to watch it and then answer a question or two; all right?

MR. FALLON: For the record, I started at 2:10:25, uh, 2.

MR. FALLON: (By Attorney Fallon) Mr. Dassey, if you didn't do anything, why did you feel sad?

MR. FALLON: Why did you apologize?

MR. FALLON: They didn't tell you to apologize?

MR. FALLON: You apologized on your own; right?

MR. FALLON: Do you always apologize for things that you didn't do?

MR. FALLON: In fact, you usually apologize when you've done something wrong?

MR. FALLON: You don't apologize then either?

MR. FALLON: Okay. When do you apologize?

MR. FALLON: For both? Explain, please.

MR. FALLON: Is that why you apologize in this case? Because you were sorry for what you had done to Teresa?

MR. FALLON: Why did you apologize?

MR. FALLON: Now, all week you sat in court with your head down and you didn't look at the tape of the interview when we played it on Friday. Why?

MR. FALLON: Why did you not look at the tape?

MR. FALLON: In fact, you didn't look at the tape this morning when I played it for the fifth -- for almost 15 minutes, did you?

MR. FALLON: You didn't have to; right?

MR. FALLON: That's because you knew what was on it?

MR. FALLON: Yeah. Are you ashamed of your behavior? Is that why your head was down all week?

MR. FALLON: Are you feeling guilty?

MR. FALLON: Then why were you hanging your head all week?

MR. FALLON: Are you hearing me all right now?

MR. FALLON: You've heard Detective Wiegert testify on --

MR. FALLON: -- Friday and Saturday morning; right?

MR. FALLON: And he said he had no idea that there was a sexual assault?

MR. FALLON: You were the one who brought up the fact of a sexual assault; right?

MR. FALLON: You brought up the rape; right?

MR. FALLON: You went over to your uncle's cabin because you knew you were going to have sex; right?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell the police that your Uncle Steven was proud of you for what you had done?

MR. FALLON: Why did you say that you sexually assaulted her?

MR. FALLON: Why did you say you put your penis in her for five minutes?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell the police that you thought it was blood in the garage?

MR. FALLON: Because it was the color of red?

MR. FALLON: It looked like blood?

MR. FALLON: What else would it have been?

MR. FALLON: Mr. Dassey, have you ever used bleach to clean up car fluid?

MR. FALLON: First time?

MR. FALLON: All right. And you used gas?

MR. FALLON: Used paint thinner?

MR. FALLON: And you used bleach?

MR. FALLON: You used the bleach?

MR. FALLON: How did the bleach get on your pants if you never got on the ground, sir?

MR. FALLON: All the way up to your waist?

MR. FALLON: Those rags were Teresa's clothing; right?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell the officers her clothing were in the fire?

MR. FALLON: All right. I want to show you a picture. I'm showing you what is marked for identification, or received into evidence, excuse me, as Exhibit 204. You recognize the people in that picture?

MR. FALLON: That's your Uncle Steve on the right?

MR. FALLON: And your grandma and your grandpa in the middle?

MR. FALLON: And that's you on the left?

MR. FALLON: And that's at the cabin in Crivitz?

MR. FALLON: As a matter of fact, that's the search warrant on the table; right?

MR. FALLON: Do you remember that picture being taken?

MR. FALLON: And it was taken right around the same time you were interviewed by Detective O'Neill; right?

MR. FALLON: Well, you just said you remember when the picture was taken. When was it taken?

MR. FALLON: In November?

MR. FALLON: While you were up at Crivitz?

MR. FALLON: And before your Uncle Steven was arrested?

MR. FALLON: So it would have been taken between November 5 and, say, November 9?

MR. FALLON: What were you talking about in that -- right around the time of that picture?

MR. FALLON: All right. Is your Uncle Steven proud of you? Does he have that proud look in his face?

MR. FALLON: What are you thinking in that picture? Do you remember?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell the police that your Uncle Steven was proud of you for helping him?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell them he couldn't have done it without you on that March 1 interview?

MR. FALLON: Well, he was proud of you for helping him, wasn't he?

MR. FALLON: He was not?

MR. FALLON: I'm sorry? What didn't happen?

MR. FALLON: Well, did you clean up?

MR. FALLON: All right. You helped put things on the fire?

MR. FALLON: All right. As a matter of fact, you saw this car seat; right?

MR. FALLON: It's sitting right in front of you; right?

MR. FALLON: You helped your uncle put that car seat on the fire?

MR. FALLON: And you helped him put tires on the fire?

MR. FALLON: So that part's true?

MR. FALLON: And he told you, when he was done, thanks for helping. I'm proud of you. I couldn't have done it without you.

MR. FALLON: Well, let's talk about your memory. How is it that you were able to tell the police officers, Mr. Fassbender and Mr. Wiegert, so much detail about what happened to Teresa if you weren't there?

MR. FALLON: What do you mean, sir, you don't know?

MR. FALLON: Out of books?

MR. FALLON: Tell us, what books could you have gotten that out of?

MR. FALLON: Where else could you have gotten it?

MR. FALLON: All right. Out of books. Let's talk about that then. Would you say you have a good memory, Mr. Dassey, or a medium one, or a poor one?

MR. FALLON: All right. And would you agree with the counselor, Ms., um -- Ms. Gross, Schoenenberger-Gross, when she testified on, uh, Saturday morning that you do have memory problems when it comes to learning stuff at school?

MR. FALLON: As a matter of fact, when you read things, or when teachers tell you things, it's hard for you to remember that so you do well on your tests; right?

MR. FALLON: All right. But for other things, things that you personally experience, things that you see and feel and hear and smell yourself, your memory is better for those things; right?

MR. FALLON: And -- and that's because you actually live through them, you experience them; right?

MR. FALLON: Well, when was it that you read these books to help you provide all that detail to these officers?

MR. FALLON: I'm sorry?

MR. FALLON: Three or four years ago? And you just happened to remember all of that on March 1, 2006?

MR. FALLON: And you just happened to be able to tell them the exact travels that your Uncle Steve took in driving Teresa Halbach's SUV from his garage to the place in the salvage yard where the vehicle was hidden?

MR. FALLON: What book had that story in it, Mr. Dassey?

MR. FALLON: What book that you read ever had the story of a woman chained to a bed, raped by two -- raped, stabbed, and then her body thrown on a fire? What book was that, sir?

MR. FALLON: All right. Who wrote the book?

MR. FALLON: Mr. Dassey, please look at Exhibit 208?

MR. FALLON: You drew that; correct?

MR. FALLON: That's your depiction?

MR. FALLON: Of Teresa Halbach chained to the bed?

MR. FALLON: Is that your dep -- is that your description? Is that how she looked when you saw her on the bed in Uncle Steven's bedroom?

MR. FALLON: You just made that up?

MR. FALLON: Yeah. The bed is a bed that you could see from the living room? You could see down the hallway and see into that bedroom?

MR. FALLON: Exhibit 210. You drew this as well, sir; correct?

MR. FALLON: That is your description of the burn area?

MR. FALLON: That is your description of Teresa on the fire in the burn pit?

MR. FALLON: You made that up?

MR. FALLON: Why?

MR. FALLON: Did you make Exhibit 208 up?

MR. FALLON: Why?

MR. FALLON: Exhibit 209. You drew this picture of the garage; correct?

MR. FALLON: This is your picture of Teresa Halbach; right?

MR. FALLON: And that's the area right here where you cleaned up; right?

MR. FALLON: Well, you said that you cleaned up a -- a three foot by three foot stain in the garage on direct examination; right?

MR. FALLON: You told the police it was right behind the lawn mower?

MR. FALLON: And that's where you cleaned up?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell the police this was the area of the cleanup?

MR. FALLON: Why did you put Teresa Halbach's representation, this stick person, why did you tell them that was Teresa's body?

MR. FALLON: Exhibit 207. You drew this picture of the knife?

MR. FALLON: You said this was the knife that your Uncle Steven used to stab Teresa Halbach?

MR. FALLON: You drew that?

MR. FALLON: And you describe it as having a black handle?

MR. FALLON: And you told the police this was the knife that you used to cut across the front of her throat?

MR. FALLON: Why?

MR. FALLON: Mr. Dassey, why did you tell the police that the burn pile smelled bad?

MR. FALLON: It smelled bad because there was a body there; right?

MR. FALLON: You saw body parts in that fire, didn't you?

MR. FALLON: You told the officers that on February 27 you saw body parts?

MR. FALLON: You told your cousin, Kayla, you saw body parts in December?

MR. FALLON: No? She just made that up?

MR. FALLON: Okay. Did you ever talk to Kayla about the events? The things that happened on October 31?

MR. FALLON: What would you think you would have told her about Steven?

MR. FALLON: Did you tell her anything about body parts or -- or any of the information that you told, uh, Investigators, uh, Fassbender and Wiegert?

MR. FALLON: Okay. You're sure?

MR. FALLON: Absolutely sure?

MR. FALLON: Okay. Then tell us, how is it that you and Kayla, both, came up with telling and seeing body parts in the fire if you never talked about it?

MR. FALLON: What newscast would that have been, sir?

MR. FALLON: Your seeing body parts in the fire? What newscast was that?

MR. FALLON: No. My question is, you told the police on February 27 you saw body parts; right?

MR. FALLON: All right. Kayla is telling her counselors of a conversation she had with you. She's telling her counselors in January that she talked to you in December and that you had told her about body parts. How could that be?

MR. FALLON: How do you feel about this today? Right now.

MR. FALLON: That's all you feel right now? You just want to go home?

MR. FALLON: Do you feel sorry for Teresa?

MR. FALLON: What do you feel?

MR. FALLON: Why? Why?

MR. FALLON: And you're telling us today that you had nothing to do with the -- with the death of Teresa Halbach?

MR. FALLON: Why did you tell the officers that you did?

MR. FALLON: And is it just a coincidence that you had all the details about how she died?

MR. FALLON: Do you recognize this exhibit; 170?

MR. FALLON: This is the rake that your Uncle Steven used to tend the fire that night, isn't it?

MR. FALLON: You can't remember?

MR. FALLON: How about this shovel? Exhibit, uh, 171?

MR. FALLON: He used this shovel that night; right?

MR. FALLON: How did you know that Teresa was handcuffed to the bed?

MR. FALLON: You just made that up?

MR. FALLON: You've never told a lie before that got you into so much trouble, have you?

MR. FALLON: That's all.

MR. FALLON: Objection, vague.

MR. FALLON: Objection, beyond the scope.

MR. FALLON: No. Thank you.