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Steven Avery & Brendan Dassey— Case Archive
Steven AverytranscripttranscriptLisa Buchner — Direct/Cross/Redirect - Day 19 - Steven AveryLisa Buchner recalled seeing a woman photographing a van near her bus drop-off point, but could not establish the sighting’s exact date.
Norman A. GahnDean A. StrangPatrick L. WillisLisa BuchnerCourt ClerkLisa BuchnerMR. STRANGMR. GAHNTHE COURTdirectcrossredirect
Steven Avery/Day 19/March 8, 2007
9 pages·4 witnesses·1,642 lines
The court heard renewed search, acquittal, and forensic-testing motions without ruling. Defense witnesses described a woman photographing a van, an unidentified green SUV, and earlier rifle use near the garage. The court later excluded proposed testimony about the Manitowoc County coroner’s involvement in the investigation.
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DirectCrossRedirect

5.Lisa Buchner — Direct/Cross/Redirect

Norman A. Gahn Dean A. Strang Lisa Buchner
320 lines
DirectDirectLisa Buchner — Direct Lisa Buchner Dean A. Strang
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COURT CLERK: Please remain standing. Raise your right hand.

LISA BUCHNER, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

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COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, Lisa Buchner, B-u-c-h-n-e-r.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY STRANG:

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MR. STRANG: Good afternoon, Ms. -- Ms. Buchner. You'll probably have to stay somewhere close to the microphone --

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MR. STRANG: -- um, as it doesn't pick up very far away. Um, back in, uh, October of 2005, did you live, uh, in Manitowoc County?

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MR. STRANG: Did you also work in Manitowoc County?

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MR. STRANG: Um, had you been in Manitowoc County for some time at that point?

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MR. STRANG: How were you working, uh, back in October, 2005?

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LISA BUCHNER: I drove school bus for Mishicot.

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MR. STRANG: For the entire school district?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. And when you say drove school bus for Mishicot, were you assigned to one school, or more than one school, or how did that work?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, I picked up at, uh, Holy Cross, the elementary, and the middle school, and high school.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. So you're actually covering four schools?

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MR. STRANG: I mean, Holy Cross is one?

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MR. STRANG: And then there's, uh, Mishicot Elementary; is that right?

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LISA BUCHNER: (No verbal response.)

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MR. STRANG: Mishicot Middle School?

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LISA BUCHNER: (No verbal response.)

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MR. STRANG: You'll have to say yes or no for --

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LISA BUCHNER: Oh, okay.

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MR. STRANG: -- the court reporter. And the Mishicot High School?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Uh, about how long did you drive school bus for the Mishicot schools?

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LISA BUCHNER: About a year-and-a-half.

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MR. STRANG: And you were doing that all -- all through the month of October, 2005? That was in that year-and-a-half?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, so would -- would your school bus -- was it -- is it a standard big longer yellow school bus?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Would your school bus have kids from five or six years old up to 17?

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MR. STRANG: All right. And, um, did you have a morning route, an afternoon route, or both?

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LISA BUCHNER: I had a morning and afternoon.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Uh, what -- what time would you start your morning route?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, I'm not really sure. I don't remember what time I would have started in the morning.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Do you remember when you had to be at the first school?

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LISA BUCHNER: To drop the kids off?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, I don't recall.

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LISA BUCHNER: I mean, I haven't drove bus all year so I --

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MR. STRANG: Sure. And -- and it -- Actually, the exact time isn't important, but what is important was did -- did school start at the same time everyday for these --

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MR. STRANG: -- schools? Okay. And then, um, same thing in the afternoon? Did it let out at the same time --

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MR. STRANG: -- everyday?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. So, um, I guess, um, in the morning, um, where -- which school would you stop at first and let the kids off after you picked them up?

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LISA BUCHNER: Uh, the high school.

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MR. STRANG: And then would --

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LISA BUCHNER: The high school and the elem -- uh, the high school and the middle school would get off together.

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MR. STRANG: Because those two buildings are together?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. And then where would you go from Mishicot High School and Mishicot Middle School?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, actually I would go to Holy Cross and drop off first, and then I would go to the middle school and high school and drop off, and then go to elementary school.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. And that's in the morning?

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MR. STRANG: When you're dropping all the kids off? Okay. Is that right?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. All right. Holy Cross is just a private school; is that --

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, and then, in the afternoon, um, where would you first pick kids up at the end of the day?

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LISA BUCHNER: Holy Cross.

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MR. STRANG: Where would --

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MR. STRANG: -- you go after Holy Cross?

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LISA BUCHNER: Uh, elementary school.

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MR. STRANG: And then?

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LISA BUCHNER: High school, middle school.

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MR. STRANG: Again, a joint --

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MR. STRANG: -- stop?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, and, uh, do you remember what time you had to be in the afternoon at the -- at the first school, Holy Cross, to pick the kids up?

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LISA BUCHNER: I'd be there at 2:30.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. And do you remember when you had to be at the Mishicot Elementary School?

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MR. STRANG: How about, then, at the, uh, middle school and the high school?

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LISA BUCHNER: I'm not sure on the time. We just followed after the elementary let out and everybody loaded the buses.

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MR. STRANG: Then you would just -- as soon as the elementary kids were loaded on, you'd go straight to the high school --

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MR. STRANG: -- and middle school? Okay. Um, and the afternoon route, did you drive the same route everyday, so to speak? I mean, stop at the same places in the same order everyday?

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MR. STRANG: Um, and what time would you typically finish? You know, drop the last kid off in the afternoon?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, 4:00.

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MR. STRANG: Was that pretty predictable?

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MR. STRANG: I mean, unless there was really bad weather or something or --

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, and I take it everyday you'd be making exactly the same stops unless --

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LISA BUCHNER: Somebody was not --

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MR. STRANG: -- kid missed school or something?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. When we talk over each other, one --

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MR. STRANG: -- of our mikes cuts out, so... Um, were -- did -- did you pick up, uh, two boys, whose last name was Dassey, back in October of 2005?

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MR. STRANG: They -- they rode the bus every school day?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Did -- and did you pick them up in the morning?

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MR. STRANG: Where did you pick the Dassey boys up in the morning?

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LISA BUCHNER: Right in front of their driveway.

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MR. STRANG: And can you tell us sort of where that was?

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LISA BUCHNER: Uh, down -- I believe, it's Avery Road. Not really sure.

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MR. STRANG: How would you get to Avery Road?

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LISA BUCHNER: I would -- What do you mean?

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MR. STRANG: What -- what -- what larger road would you use to --

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MR. STRANG: -- get -- Okay. And then you would turn down Avery Road?

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MR. STRANG: Where would you go when you turned down Avery Road?

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LISA BUCHNER: I would go to the end and pick the boys up in front of their driveway and then turn around.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. So when you say "the end", down to the end of the paved road that ran north/south?

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LISA BUCHNER: Yes. It was a paved road and they were on a gravel road.

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MR. STRANG: That you're calling their driveway?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, as you're driving down Avery Road, which -- uh, which side of you was the driveway on?

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LISA BUCHNER: The right.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. And then what did you do at the end of that road? Or how did you go to the next stop from that --

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LISA BUCHNER: I would have to turn around and come back out the same way.

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MR. STRANG: Turn the bus around --

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MR. STRANG: -- and -- Okay. Do you remember that -- the first names of the Dassey boys?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, Blaine and Brendan, I think.

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MR. STRANG: All right. And did -- then did you also drop Blaine and Brendan Dassey off in the afternoon?

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MR. STRANG: Um, in the same order that you dropped -- you know, I mean, you would go in the same rote in the afternoon?

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LISA BUCHNER: The morning route would be different than the afternoon route, but they were always the same everyday.

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MR. STRANG: The afternoon route would be the same everyday?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, and what time did you find that you got to that -- you know, the end of Avery Road where you dropped the Dassey boys off?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, between 3:30 and 4 -- or 3:40.

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MR. STRANG: Between 3:30 and 3:40?

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MR. STRANG: And how do you know that?

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LISA BUCHNER: Because it was about the same time everyday. Same route.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, during the week of -- that began on Monday, October 31, 2005, um, do you remember seeing anything that, you know, you remembered later when you dropped the Dassey boys off on that -- that week?

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LISA BUCHNER: I, um, remember seeing a woman taking photographs.

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MR. STRANG: Could you tell what the woman was taking photographs of?

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MR. STRANG: And where -- where was the woman taking photographs of a van?

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LISA BUCHNER: In the driveway.

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MR. STRANG: The driveway you just described?

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LISA BUCHNER: Yeah. The one on the right.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. About -- Could you see about how far down the van was?

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LISA BUCHNER: It was right by the pavement. In the -- I mean, right at -- right there. I don't know.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, remember anything about the van?

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LISA BUCHNER: It was -- No, it was junk.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. All right. And, um, do you remember where -- How did you know the woman was taking photographs?

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LISA BUCHNER: I saw a woman taking photographs. I saw a camera.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, at the time, I assume, this was no big deal?

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MR. STRANG: All right. Uh, how is it that you later remembered that?

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LISA BUCHNER: I remember, um, that I -- I was laying -- laying down on the couch and I remembered that I made the comment to myself, um, why would anybody take a piece -- a picture of that piece of junk?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, and within a few days after this, um, did -- were you encountering the -- the road being closed off by police in that general area?

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LISA BUCHNER: The road was closed off, yes.

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MR. STRANG: I mean, a few days after the -- you saw this woman taking photographs of the van?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, when I remembered, it was already closed off.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, now, as you sit here today, do you -- do you remember what day, exactly, of the week of October 31 you saw the woman taking photographs of the junky van?

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LISA BUCHNER: Uh, no I don't remember the day.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Do -- was there only one day when you saw a woman in October, 2005, or early November, if that's what it was, taking pictures --

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MR. GAHN: Objection, Your Honor. The -- He's leading the witness for a while now.

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THE COURT: Um, well, I don't think that last question's leading so I'm going to allow it.

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MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) Was -- was there more than one day in this time period when you saw a woman taking photographs of the junky van?

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LISA BUCHNER: Uh, not that I remember. I only remember seeing one woman taking pictures.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, do you personally know Steven Avery?

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MR. STRANG: Uh, do you personally know any of Halbach family?

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MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, I -- I -- I take it, if I understand, you -- you simply happened to be a bus driver who dropped the Dassey boys off?

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MR. STRANG: And picked them up?

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MR. STRANG: Um, when you saw this woman taking the photographs, was -- was that when you were dropping the Dassey boys off or some other time?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, when I was dropping them off.

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MR. STRANG: Okay. So in -- again, that would have been about when? What --

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LISA BUCHNER: Three-thirty.

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MR. STRANG: -- time of day?

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LISA BUCHNER: I'm sorry. Three-thirty to three-forty.

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MR. STRANG: That's all I have. Thank you.

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THE COURT: Mr. Gahn?

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MR. GAHN: Yes, Your Honor.

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THE COURT: You may proceed.

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MR. GAHN: Thank you.

CrossCrossLisa Buchner — Cross Lisa Buchner Norman A. Gahn
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CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY GAHN:

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MR. GAHN: Good afternoon, Ms. Buchner. Um, do you recall when you, um, reported this? What -- Your observations to the police?

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LISA BUCHNER: I believe it was Saturday.

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MR. GAHN: Saturday? Could -- could it have been, um, Monday? The following Monday? On -- on November 7 --

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LISA BUCHNER: Could have been.

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MR. GAHN: -- do you recall? Okay. And do you remember, um, how did you contact the police?

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LISA BUCHNER: I walked up to the barrier.

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MR. GAHN: And, um -- and what prompted you to -- to go to the police?

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LISA BUCHNER: Because I had remembered seeing a woman taking pictures.

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LISA BUCHNER: And I thought maybe I should say something.

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MR. GAHN: As a good citizen?

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MR. GAHN: Okay. And, um, do you, um, remember who you talked to?

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MR. GAHN: Uh, when you reported this.

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LISA BUCHNER: Uh, when I walked up to the barrier, and there was a woman cop, and I spoke -- spoke to a male cop, but I don't remember the name.

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MR. GAHN: And this was over at the Avery Salvage Yard you went to report this; correct?

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LISA BUCHNER: It was -- it was at a barrier by my house.

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MR. GAHN: I'm sorry? By where?

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LISA BUCHNER: By my house where I lived.

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MR. GAHN: Do you live nearby?

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LISA BUCHNER: Yeah. I did.

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MR. GAHN: Do you -- so -- where did you live, then?

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LISA BUCHNER: I lived, um, on County Road Q.

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MR. GAHN: And how far was that from the Avery Salvage Yard?

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LISA BUCHNER: I don't know. Not far. I don't --

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MR. GAHN: Uh, did you drive over there or walk over there?

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LISA BUCHNER: I walked to the barrier at the intersection.

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MR. GAHN: Okay. And -- and when you say "the barrier", you mean the barrier over at the Avery Salvage Yard?

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LISA BUCHNER: No. The barrier at the intersection of Q and -- and 147. The barrier --

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MR. GAHN: But then from there did you go further to the, um -- towards the Avery property?

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LISA BUCHNER: An -- another day I did. They called me back a different day.

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MR. GAHN: Oh. And -- and -- All right. So -- Did you talk to anyone or tell anyone that first time you went to the barrier?

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LISA BUCHNER: Tell them what?

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MR. GAHN: What you just -- what you're telling today?

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MR. GAHN: And then you say you went back again?

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LISA BUCHNER: And gave a statement.

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MR. GAHN: Okay. And do you remember to whom it was you gave a statement?

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MR. GAHN: Okay. Could it have been Detective -- Officer Wiegert, here?

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MR. GAHN: He's sitting right here behind --

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LISA BUCHNER: The glasses? I -- I think I was in his -- in his cruise -- in his cop car. I don't -- I don't remember. There was a cop I talked to, too, and then somebody in a building.

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MR. GAHN: And was that over by the Avery Salvage Yard?

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MR. GAHN: Okay. All right. Um, and you -- you told him on that day these observations of yours; correct?

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MR. GAHN: And you can't tell us, though, to the exactly what day it was you made these observations?

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MR. GAHN: And can you say for sure whether it was the week of October 31?

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MR. GAHN: Could it have been before October 31?

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MR. GAHN: Could it have been a week before?

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MR. GAHN: Could it have been two weeks before?

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LISA BUCHNER: Yes. I -- I don't know.

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MR. GAHN: So you don't know exactly when it was you saw this woman taking pictures?

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MR. GAHN: And do you remember -- Well, let me ask you this: How close did you get to her?

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LISA BUCHNER: I have no idea how far away it would have been. I was in a school bus, dropped kids off and drove away. I'm --

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MR. GAHN: I mean, um, five feet? Ten feet? Twenty feet away?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, not really sure.

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MR. GAHN: Um, two blocks away?

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MR. GAHN: Okay. Could you just give us an idea --

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MR. GAHN: -- of how far away she was when you saw her? And it's okay if you can't.

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LISA BUCHNER: I -- I have no idea.

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MR. GAHN: And that's okay. Um, and do you know where the vehicles were that she was taking photographs of?

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LISA BUCHNER: They were at the end of the driveway.

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MR. GAHN: And at the end of the -- where you enter the Avery property?

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LISA BUCHNER: The, uh -- the gravel driveway to the right off of, um, Avery Road by the mailboxes.

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MR. GAHN: By -- Um, if you were to see a diagram of that property, could that help you?

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MR. GAHN: Very good. Thank you, ma'am. I'm putting up, um, what has been previously, in this trial, ma'am, as Exhibit 81, and I'm going to ask you, does that have the road that you would drive down to pick up or drop off the boys?

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LISA BUCHNER: The, um, road where all the cars are parked? That's Avery Road?

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MR. GAHN: Okay. Is it -- And -- and to -- are you sh -- sure that's Av -- that's Avery Road?

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LISA BUCHNER: I -- I don't know. I'm asking. Is it?

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MR. GAHN: Okay. Yes, that's Avery Road.

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LISA BUCHNER: And then the gravel road would be the one to the right there.

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MR. GAHN: And where were the -- where -- If I were to give you a laser pointer, could you show us where the woman was taking pictures on this --

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MR. GAHN: Okay. And, also, um, Ms. Buchner, let me know if it would be helpful, because we can zoom in to these intersections --

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MR. GAHN: -- and make this closer. Could -- could you show the jurors where Avery Road is and --

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MR. GAHN: -- where you would drive your bus in?

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LISA BUCHNER: I would drive this way and then drop off right there.

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MR. GAHN: Okay. That's where you would drop off the boys?

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LISA BUCHNER: Yeah. And then turn around right there.

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MR. GAHN: All right. And where did you see the woman who you believe was taking the pictures?

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LISA BUCHNER: Would be in the middle of right there. And --

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LISA BUCHNER: -- taking --

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MR. GAHN: You're -- You're doing just fine. Thank you. Could you also -- Would there be any way to show the jurors where you believe the cars were that she was taking photographs of?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, right there would be -- right there and on both sides of this driveway right there. There was the van, and then a car, and then a car on the other side, and I think a car behind it, but I'm not sure.

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MR. GAHN: And when you dropped the boys off after school, is that where you always dropped them off?

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MR. GAHN: Do you know how many cars she was taking photographs of?

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MR. GAHN: And, um, could you describe any of the clothing?

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MR. GAHN: Could it have been a man with long hair?

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LISA BUCHNER: I don't think so.

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MR. GAHN: Okay. I -- I'm just -- I know -- You're -- you're sure it was a woman?

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LISA BUCHNER: Yes, I remember it being a woman.

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MR. GAHN: Okay. All right. Thank you so much, Ms. Buchner. Appreciate it.

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THE COURT: Mr. Strang?

RedirectRedirectLisa Buchner — Redirect Lisa Buchner Dean A. Strang
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REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. STRANG:

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MR. STRANG: Ms. Buchner, um, I understand you don't remember the day anymore, but did you -- did you -- did -- did you -- you walked up to tell the police about this on your own?

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MR. STRANG: And was that just a few days after this happened?

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LISA BUCHNER: Um, I believe it was Saturday.

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MR. STRANG: Of the same week?

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MR. STRANG: At the end of that week? Okay. And then you -- then they asked you to come back a few days later and give a statement?

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MR. STRANG: But that was still a week or a little more than a week after this -- after you saw this woman taking the picture of the van?

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MR. STRANG: Uh, that's all I have. Thanks.

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THE COURT: Very well. You are excused. Defense may call its next witness.

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MR. STRANG: And that witness is a gentleman named John Leurquin.

Continue to next page6.John Leurquin — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross/Redirect
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