3.James Lenk — Cross/Redirect/Recross (Part 3)

MR. STRANG: Thank you, Your Honor. I, uh -- I will do that by marking, I think, Exhibit 214.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) Lieutenant Lenk, what is Exhibit 214?

MR. STRANG: Whose writing is on it?

MR. STRANG: When did you prepare that evidence transmittal form?

MR. STRANG: This relates to the 1985 case against Steven Avery?

MR. STRANG: This is the, uh, evidence we were discussing just before, uh, the break that Mr. Kratz requested?

MR. STRANG: All right. Now, uh, this is a form that you would have prepared, or you did prepare, to document, again, when a -- an item of evidence is moving from place A to place B; correct?

MR. STRANG: And then if it comes back from place B to place A, you would document that as well?

MR. STRANG: Correct. And this is part of something that you, as an evidence custodian, or former evidence custodian, know as maintaining the chain of custody?

MR. STRANG: So, by chain, the -- the metaphor is that, uh, from the moment you see or gather evidence, every person who touches that evidence along the way is a link in the chain and you want to make sure that all the links are there?

MR. STRANG: So that when the evidence comes to court, there's an unbroken chain, if you will. All the links are present, back to the time the evidence was seized?

MR. STRANG: This document, Exhibit 214, is a document intended to establish one of those links, essentially?

MR. STRANG: Now, the items that were sent, uh, on or about September 19, 2002, to the State Crime Lab, uh, included hair and fingernail cuttings?

MR. STRANG: It was one box of items containing those things; correct?

MR. STRANG: To be tested by use of DNA procedures according to a circuit court order; correct?

MR. STRANG: You did not transmit a vial of blood to the State Crime Lab on September 19, 2002?

MR. STRANG: You didn't cause to be transmitted or document the transmittal of a vial of blood on Exhibit 214?

MR. STRANG: That is, sir, as evidence custodian, did you go over to the Clerk of Court's Office to examine that 1985 court file and take from it the things that were to be sent to the State Crime Lab?

MR. STRANG: You did not personally do that?

MR. STRANG: Although you were the evidence custodian of the Department?

MR. STRANG: But these items were exhibits held by the court since the end of the trial?

MR. STRANG: Which is exactly what you wrote on Exhibit 214; correct?

MR. STRANG: So you were aware on September 19, 2002 that the court was holding exhibits in Mr. Avery's earlier case since the end of the trial?

MR. STRANG: Actually, you used the plural as exhibits; correct? Presumably, you mean hair and fingernail cuttings?

MR. STRANG: All right. When a, uh -- when a court pulls evidence after a trial, where is that held?

MR. STRANG: Suppose that's what the Clerk of Court does?

MR. STRANG: All right. Uh, who did you send over to the Clerk of Court's Office to obtain the hair and fingernail cuttings described in Exhibit 214?

MR. STRANG: All right. I'm sorry, I -- I was calling him deputy and I didn't mean to take him down a rank. Uh, so to your knowledge, Sergeant Mike Shallue went over to the Clerk of Court's Office; correct?

MR. STRANG: Under your direction?

MR. STRANG: And then brought these items back to you in the sheriff's office?

MR. STRANG: How did you come to compare the form?

MR. STRANG: So you didn't -- you were signing this form as a transmittal of criminal evidence and didn't -- didn't document what he actually obtained or sent?

MR. STRANG: Trusted -- entrusted him with the task?

MR. STRANG: And, then, presumably, that went off to the State Crime Lab?

MR. STRANG: Were you still the evidence custodian when it came back?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Do -- do you even know that it did come back?

MR. STRANG: You have no reason to doubt it?

MR. STRANG: So would I. I mean, but you just don't know one way or the other. Um, in relation -- Well, the -- the Sheriff's Department in Manitowoc County, and let's use 2002 as our time reference, September of 2002, uh, was located in the same building that houses the jail?

MR. STRANG: Just south of -- What is it? Eighth and Washington?

MR. STRANG: Or between Ninth and Eighth?

MR. STRANG: Okay. But south of Washington Street, if I have my directions right?

MR. STRANG: All right. And what's that -- what's that large building that stands just to the north of the Sheriff's Department and the jail, I don't know, 50 yards to the north or something?

MR. STRANG: Right across, sort of, a courtyard or a -- there's a -- some walkways or a monument there?

MR. STRANG: And where is the Clerk of Court's Office?

MR. STRANG: Of the courthouse?

MR. STRANG: Now, you were interviewed by the gentleman over farthest to the right in the back, uh, Special Agent Tom Fassbender, uh, on December 8, 2006. Does that sound right?

MR. STRANG: Uh, you knew that a question had been raised about this vial of blood that Mr. Kratz referred to?

MR. STRANG: And he wanted to ask some questions of you about that blood vial?

MR. STRANG: Explained to you that an issue had been -- had been raised about integrity of this investigation?

MR. STRANG: Uh, and you wanted to answer his questions?

MR. STRANG: You wanted to answer them truthfully?

MR. STRANG: To clear up any questions about the blood vial or the integrity of the investigation?

MR. STRANG: You would be truthful, in any event, when answering the law enforcement officer's questions?

MR. STRANG: Yes.

MR. STRANG: Uh, lying to a law enforcement officer who's performing his duties is, itself, a crime --

MR. STRANG: -- in the state of Wisconsin? Sir, you are -- you told Special Agent Fassbender on -- on December 8 that, um -- that you had filled out this Evidence Transmittal Form? Exhibit 214?

MR. STRANG: Just as you told us today, uh, that you wrote on the transmittal form that, uh, the exhibits had been held by the court since the end of the trial?

MR. STRANG: That's what you told Special Agent Fassbender?

MR. STRANG: And, uh, you -- you told him -- you told Special Agent Fassbender, as well, that, uh, it was your memory that -- that, uh, Sergeant Shallue had obtained the items from the clerk's -- Clerk of Court's Office and transmitted them from there?

MR. STRANG: Were you interviewed just about a month later, um, by an Investigator Steier from the Calumet County Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: Which -- which part are you not sure about?

MR. STRANG: Fair enough. Um, I'll show you -- I guess I'll mark this, but I'm just going to use this to try to refresh your recollection.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) I suggest the date of that interview may have been January 11, 2007, but I will show you Exhibit 215 just to see whether or not it refreshes your recollection about Investigator Steier interviewing you?

MR. STRANG: Was that interview in person?

MR. STRANG: Investigator Steier also, obviously, is a law enforcement officer?

MR. STRANG: And on January 11, 2007, did you tell Investigator Steier that you had no idea the Steven Avery file was kept in the Manitowoc County Clerk of Court's Office?

MR. STRANG: You didn't know there was a file, but you knew that there were exhibits from the file?

MR. STRANG: So you thought that perhaps the hair and fingernail cuttings were the -- the only exhibits that the court had held since the end of the trial?

MR. STRANG: I mentioned earlier that you're, in terms of rank, probably the fourth ranking person today in the Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And -- and that's where I was going. You're fourth in terms of rank, but some of the positions above you or parallel with you have more than one person filling or with that rank; correct?

MR. STRANG: So that -- In other words, there may be two deputy inspectors?

MR. STRANG: Both of whom outrank you?

MR. STRANG: You're one of four lieutenants?

MR. STRANG: But are you part of the scene or management team of the Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And I -- it may -- that may not be a term you -- you folks use. So let's start with, are you -- are you part of management, so to speak?

MR. STRANG: Uh, are you included in meetings about the overall operation of the Department?

MR. STRANG: Simply responsible, most of the time, for the operation of the Detective Bureau?

MR. STRANG: You are the only lieutenant of detectives?

MR. STRANG: Do you know, as you sit here today, Lieutenant Lenk, uh, how many keys the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department has to the Clerk of Court's Office?

MR. STRANG: Do you know that the Sheriff's Department is responsible for security in the Manitowoc County Courthouse?

MR. STRANG: That courthouse, of course, includes the Clerk of Court's Office; right?

MR. STRANG: And a number of other offices in the courthouse?

MR. STRANG: The Sheriff's Department has overall responsibility for security in that entire building?

MR. STRANG: And its offices?

MR. STRANG: To maintain security, or to discharge that duty, the Sheriff's Department needs access to the courthouse?

MR. STRANG: Needs access to all the offices in the courthouse?

MR. STRANG: Has one or more master keys to your knowledge?

MR. STRANG: And, in any event, you don't know how many such master keys your Department may have?

MR. STRANG: I want to move to Mr. Avery's civil lawsuit, all right? Uh, and the backdrop on that is -- is Mr. Avery being released from prison. You remember that?

MR. STRANG: That made big news?

MR. STRANG: 2003?

MR. STRANG: Uh, and by "big news" I mean, this was something that was on the televisions?

MR. STRANG: You recall it being in the newspapers?

MR. STRANG: You recall the newspapers, uh, shining a light, so to speak, on your Department?

MR. STRANG: Examining the way that earlier conviction had been handled?

MR. STRANG: You understood that your Department had been the investigating agency in the 1985 case?

MR. STRANG: You understood that that investigative process led to serious charges being brought against Mr. Avery?

MR. STRANG: Ultimately, led to his conviction?

MR. STRANG: And that it turned out he hadn't committed the crimes?

MR. STRANG: Do you have any question about that?

MR. STRANG: Any doubt in your mind about whether Mr. Avery was innocent of the crimes for which he was convicted?

MR. STRANG: Simply a matter on which you have no opinion?

MR. STRANG: Is this another one of these things that you didn't care about one way or another?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And that was a phrase you -- you recall using just yesterday when Mr. Kratz asked you how you felt about or what you cared about Mr. Avery's lawsuit?

MR. STRANG: Now, you remember -- not the exact time, of course -- but you remember the general event of Mr. Avery filing a civil lawsuit?

MR. STRANG: Filed it against Manitowoc County?

MR. STRANG: Relating to the actions of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: That is a sheriff's office in the state of Wisconsin as a county office; correct?

MR. STRANG: Uh, so you understood that the lawsuit put in issue the actions of your Department?

MR. STRANG: Did you care when that lawsuit was filed?

MR. STRANG: Did you care about the lawsuit being filed?

MR. STRANG: Didn't care at all that the county was being sued over the actions of your Department?

MR. STRANG: And you didn't care one way or the other who won the lawsuit, if I understood your testimony?

MR. STRANG: Didn't care about the lawsuit. If you didn't care about the lawsuit, then I guess you didn't care one way or the other who won or lost?

MR. STRANG: You didn't or -- or are you agreeing or --

MR. STRANG: All right. And do I understand you to be saying that you didn't care one way or the other, then, whether someone who had been wrongfully convicted got some compensation for that?

MR. STRANG: Then how is it that you didn't care one way or the other?

MR. STRANG: All right. But if he happened to get some compensation, that would be all right for you?

MR. STRANG: All right. Uh, do you think somebody who goes to prison for a long time for a crime he didn't commit ought to get some compensation?

MR. STRANG: But you didn't have a strong opinion about that one way or the other?

MR. STRANG: Uh, did you have a strong opinion one way or the other about the fact that the man your Department missed back in 1985 was out free on the streets because Mr. Avery was doing his time?

MR. STRANG: I'm -- I'm exploring his attitudes about the lawsuit and its consequences.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) Do you care one way or the other, Lieutenant Lenk, about whether your Department gets the right guy in a criminal investigation?

MR. STRANG: That you do care about?

MR. STRANG: And what's your preference?

MR. STRANG: Well, since you cared about whether they do or don't get the right guy, what's your preference?

MR. STRANG: Now, this was the lawsuit that eventually led to your deposition?

MR. STRANG: Your deposition on, I think, October 11, 2005?

MR. STRANG: I won't even bother to mark this, but I don't want to have you have any questions about it. I'm showing you the transcript of your deposition. What's the date of that deposition?

MR. STRANG: That's you with your picture on the front?

MR. STRANG: Lieutenant Lenk, was October 11, 2005, the first time you had ever had your deposition taken?

MR. STRANG: Regarding anything.

MR. STRANG: Had -- had a deposition before. All right. Uh, this was, though, something unusual for you?

MR. STRANG: You were subpoenaed?

MR. STRANG: Yes.

MR. STRANG: And, uh, you asked, uh -- or you were asked a number of questions?

MR. STRANG: You under -- you un -- you understand that this process here that we're doing, I'm the one asking questions? So I'm speaking to you. I'm asking you a question?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And you're providing answers?

MR. STRANG: Uh, you provided answers at the deposition in much the same format, didn't you?

MR. STRANG: And I think you told us that one -- sort of the major topic of this deposition was the telephone call that Sergeant Colborn, in fact, when he was in the jail, had received some years earlier?

MR. STRANG: Sergeant Colborn told you about that telephone call, didn't he?

MR. STRANG: That is, he told you about it on the very day of Steven Avery's release or the very next day, didn't he?

MR. STRANG: But you all were having a conversation about Mr. Avery being released from prison; right?

MR. STRANG: But, in any event, uh, whether there was a conversation or not, uh, Officer Colborn had given you this information, uh, and you thought it may or may not be relevant?

MR. STRANG: And, uh, you should -- you -- you told Officer Colborn he ought to pass it along to the sheriff?

MR. STRANG: And the two of you went to Sheriff Peterson together about it?

MR. STRANG: And, uh, Sheriff Peterson suggested that maybe the two of you ought to prepare a short report or statement about that?

MR. STRANG: You prepared that statement on September 12, 2003?

MR. STRANG: Do you recall that, or do you not, as being the day after Steven Avery was released from prison?

MR. STRANG: Did you consider the possibility that you might be added as a defendant to that civil lawsuit?

MR. STRANG: Never crossed your mind?

MR. STRANG: Now, Teresa Halbach. It's November 3, 2005 when you first learned that she is missing?

MR. STRANG: She's reported missing by another county? Not Manitowoc County?

MR. STRANG: The adjoining county, but a different county altogether?

MR. STRANG: Uh, this is, at that point, their missing person investigation?

MR. STRANG: You at -- at the time, November 3, 2005, uh, were then, as you are now, the chief detective, if you will, for Manitowoc County?

MR. STRANG: That is in charge of all of the other detectives in the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: You also have some duties as a detective yourself in the field, so to speak?

MR. STRANG: Is it true, sir, that within two hours after that missing person report to Calumet County, you, on your own, were calling Investigator Mark Wiegert asking about it?

MR. STRANG: Well, how did you learn about it?

MR. STRANG: I'm saying Investigator Wiegert --

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) When you say Investigator Wiegert, you're -- you're referring to the gentleman behind me with the neatly trimmed goatee?

MR. STRANG: You know him to be one of the two lead case investigators on this investigation?

MR. STRANG: Had you known Investigator Wiegert before, uh, Ms. Halbach was reported missing?

MR. STRANG: Professionally?

MR. STRANG: Some collaboration between your two departments is not unusual?

MR. STRANG: Because you're adjoining counties?

MR. STRANG: And you're quite sure that it was Investigator Wiegert who called you, not the other way around?

MR. STRANG: Oh.

MR. STRANG: All right. So if Investigator Wiegert says that you were the one who called him, you're now prepared to accept that?

MR. STRANG: May have --

MR. STRANG: -- may have heard about this missing person from Detective Remiker? Someone else under you?

MR. STRANG: All right. It is possible, then, that you were the one who placed the call to Investigator Wiegert?

MR. STRANG: You wouldn't disagree with him if that's the way he put it on paper?

MR. STRANG: While we're on that subject, could -- did I understand you correctly that -- I'm jumping ahead here a couple of days to November 5 -- that it was your understanding that Calumet County Sheriff's Department would write all the reports in this case?

MR. STRANG: How many Manitowoc County sheriff's officers were involved in this investigation?

MR. STRANG: A number. Meaning over a dozen probably?

MR. STRANG: Well, you were out at the Avery property yourself, weren't you, from November 5 through at least November 9?

MR. STRANG: During, essentially, all of your working hours?

MR. STRANG: Did you see more than a dozen of your fellow officers from Manitowoc there?

MR. STRANG: You've described working directly with at least two of them; right?

MR. STRANG: Sergeant Colborn and Detective Remiker?

MR. STRANG: You -- you people were actively searching buildings, cars, garages, all sorts of places on that property?

MR. STRANG: You were identifying evidence?

MR. STRANG: You interviewed people?

MR. STRANG: That -- in which you personally participated?

MR. STRANG: And it was your understanding that you weren't going to prepare any reports as a -- as a Department about any of that?

MR. STRANG: Have you ever been involved in an investigation before in which it was decided beforehand that you would not write reports about what you were doing?

MR. STRANG: Have you been involved in one since when it was decided you would not write reports about what you were doing?

MR. STRANG: You understand that when you write a report, you're committing yourself to paper on what the facts are that are described in the report? You understand that, don't you?

MR. STRANG: And if you don't write a report, I guess you're not committed to any version of the facts, are you?

MR. STRANG: Ah. But how would one know what it is that you say the facts are if you haven't put them down on paper? How would we learn that?

MR. STRANG: From the officer who wrote the reports or by hearing you testify in court?

MR. STRANG: Well, as it happens, you eventually did prepare something of a report here, didn't you?

MR. STRANG: A page or two?

MR. STRANG: Now, you mentioned just a moment ago the November 4 interview with Mr. Avery?

MR. STRANG: This is the morning after Ms. Halbach has been reported missing?

MR. STRANG: And you, personally, as the lieutenant of detectives, took it upon yourself to go out and interview Mr. Avery?

MR. STRANG: Did Mr. Wiegert request that you, personally, go out and interview Mr. Avery?

MR. STRANG: All right. And you decided that one of those people would be you?

MR. STRANG: And, then, you took Detective Remiker with you?

MR. STRANG: He's a detective working under you, obviously?

MR. STRANG: Experienced detective?

MR. STRANG: Uh, number of years of service as a detective in the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: Was he capable of, uh, interviewing somebody at 10:30 on a Friday morning?

MR. STRANG: At that point, uh, Steven Avery was just a person of interest?

MR. STRANG: So the two of you went out to Mr. Avery's?

MR. STRANG: He was cooperative?

MR. STRANG: Uh, when Detective Remiker asked if you folks could take a walk through his house, he said, sure, or words to that effect?

MR. STRANG: Gave you his consent, as they say?

MR. STRANG: You walked through the entire house quickly?

MR. STRANG: You stayed outside?

MR. STRANG: Did you have any information on the morning of November 4 about the, uh -- the sort of car that Ms. Halbach was driving when last seen at least?

MR. STRANG: Did you have a license plate number?

MR. STRANG: All right. You don't know if anyone else did or did not?

MR. STRANG: You worked, though, a number of years in the road patrol division yourself?

MR. STRANG: It was common, uh, in road patrol to call in a license plate?

MR. STRANG: That might be a traffic stop; correct?

MR. STRANG: Where -- where you would then call into dispatch with the license plate that you were seeing and dispatch could tell you to whom the plate was registered?

MR. STRANG: Dispatch could also tell you what car the plate ought to be on?

MR. STRANG: And this would be done, typically, over the radio?

MR. STRANG: Road patrol officers have a radio unit in their car? Their squad car?

MR. STRANG: And then, also, have a collar mike?

MR. STRANG: Some do. Others have a portable?

MR. STRANG: But -- but all of the road patrol officers have both a radio in the squad car and some sort of portable radio that goes with them?

MR. STRANG: Typically, when you're calling in a license plate, you would use the radio when you're on duty?

MR. STRANG: A radio, uh, though, is something that citizens, if they have a police scanner, can overhear?

MR. STRANG: Right. I mean, it's -- it's -- it's a -- a broadcast frequency?

MR. STRANG: I want you to -- to listen to Exhibit 212.

MR. STRANG: I -- I'm not offering it for the truth.

MR. STRANG: First of all, I can't get it to make noise at all.

MR. STRANG: Well, um, yes and no. I'm -- What I'm trying to establish here is that this is not a radio transmission, but this is a telephone call.

MR. STRANG: Um, the -- the purpose is to show that the ordinary thing, if one is on duty, would have been to use the radio, not a telephone, for such an inquiry.

MR. STRANG: I al -- that I think I already -- I just did, I believe.

MR. STRANG: I just need to identify it as a -- as a phone call not a -- not a radio call. Uh, that probably could be done without playing the whole thing that is --

MR. STRANG: Correct.

MR. STRANG: Oh, I can raise some foundation on the taping system there and I suppose he should know it because of the ringing sound at the beginning.

MR. STRANG: Or the way the dispatcher answers the phone.

MR. STRANG: Agreed. Thank you.

MR. STRANG: Thank you, Your Honor.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) Lieutenant Lenk, when we took our break, I think you had just explained to the jurors that, uh, certainly the typical procedure in calling in a license plate check would be for the road patrol officer to use the radio?

MR. STRANG: Now, are you familiar with the -- the taping system on telephone lines at the Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: Okay. You know that dispatch radio traffic is tape recorded? All of it? The radio traffic?

MR. STRANG: All right. Some of the telephone lines that the dispatchers answer also are tape recorded?

MR. STRANG: That's not something known by every officer in the Department?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Something you've learned in your management position?

MR. STRANG: Now, I'm going to -- I'm going to play Exhibit 212 for you. Uh, your voice is not on here. We've heard testimony about this. But I -- I want you to listen to whether you can identify, uh, whether this appears to be a radio call or a call on a telephone line. Okay?

MR. STRANG: Okay. First of all, did you -- did you recognize the voices?

MR. STRANG: Lynn is a dispatcher at the Sheriff's Department?

MR. STRANG: Andy is Andy Colborn?

MR. STRANG: Sergeant Andy Colborn?

MR. STRANG: And were you able to tell, in listening to Exhibit 212, this -- this sounds like a -- a routine license plate check?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Not over the radio?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Now, if -- if it's over the telephone, this is, in a sense, private from anybody with a police scanner?

MR. STRANG: When you're off duty, uh, in the road patrol division, I take it you do not carry a police radio?

MR. STRANG: Others don't either?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Well, the -- the -- the, uh, portable radios are Sheriff's Department equipment?

MR. STRANG: They're not to be taken home ordinarily?

MR. STRANG: In case you get called in from home?

MR. STRANG: All right. Squad cars are not taken home?

MR. STRANG: So, obviously, the radio in the squad car wouldn't -- wouldn't be available to somebody, uh, when he's off duty?

MR. STRANG: Now, um, let's go back to November 5. You, um -- you get a call while you're off duty, uh, sometime that morning?

MR. STRANG: And, uh, you, uh, tell your wife you're sorry but you got to go in to work?

MR. STRANG: There's -- there's this stop at Wendy's, um, on the way?

MR. STRANG: And, um, from Wendy's, essentially, you go home and then off to work?

MR. STRANG: Now, what you testified, uh, yesterday, as I understood you, is that you arrived at the Avery salvage property just shortly after 2:00, 2:05 or something like that?

MR. STRANG: That was your testimony? That's your best recollection?

MR. STRANG: I see. Uh, tapes like the ones we just listened to?

MR. STRANG: As opposed to telephone line tapes like this?

MR. STRANG: You can tell the difference between a -- a radio tape and a telephone tape?

MR. STRANG: Right. I mean, so, in effect, you can tell the difference if you're listening to a tape?

MR. STRANG: First of all, any number of people could be calling in and conversing with the dispatcher?

MR. STRANG: You folks use your squad numbers?

MR. STRANG: Or a -- a three-digit number?

MR. STRANG: Um, and in that radio traffic, you -- you -- we sometimes hear the, uh, term "I'm in code." Are you familiar with that term?

MR. STRANG: What does that mean?

MR. STRANG: But what -- we're hearing it while the person's in code, or is that telling the dispatcher to go to a separate radio frequency?

MR. STRANG: And is that frequency also taped?

MR. STRANG: Now, so you -- you had a chance to review some of this radio traffic on the tapes?

MR. STRANG: I'm sorry?

MR. STRANG: All right. That -- that helped you decide that probably 2 or 2:05, somewhere in there, you arrived at the Avery property?

MR. STRANG: The, uh, subject of when you arrived, uh, at the Avery property that day has, uh -- has come up before in this case, hasn't it?

MR. STRANG: In fact, you've given testimony about that very topic before?

MR. STRANG: You gave testimony under oath back on August 9, 2006?

MR. STRANG: In any event, you remember one event, a hearing in which you were under oath?

MR. STRANG: Now, the oath, of course, was the same you took today?

MR. STRANG: And were you asked on that occasion, uh, the follow questions and did you give these answers?

MR. STRANG: Page 197, Counsel.

MR. STRANG: I'm sorry?

MR. STRANG: Page 216, Counsel. I'm sorry.

MR. STRANG: Now, uh, you don't recall signing in on a log when you arrived at the Avery property on November 5, do you?

MR. STRANG: You do recall signing out?

MR. STRANG: So if we were to look through the log sheets, we would look in vain for any spot where you're signed in that day?

MR. STRANG: Right. I -- I'm just -- I do, and I don't see your name. That's your understanding?

MR. STRANG: I do see you signing out at 10:41 p.m. That sound right?

MR. STRANG: Okay. We are -- we have this. I can offer you the exhibit if you'd like.

MR. STRANG: One forty-two. Ms. Bonin?

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) I show you Exhibit 142. Let's see. We can probably take these away so that -- got good housekeeping. That look like the log from the Avery property from November 5, 2005?

MR. STRANG: And if you flip through to 10:41 p.m.? I don't remember if it's military, or a.m./p.m. time, but --

MR. STRANG: You, and Detective Remiker, and Sergeant Colborn are signing out at the same time?

MR. STRANG: Now, you understand that, um, if you had arrived at 6:30 or 7 at the Avery property, it would be a little hard to explain why -- why you're not on the log signing in; wouldn't it?

MR. STRANG: If you arrived, though, uh, even in the late afternoon, that would be hard to explain why you hadn't signed in?

MR. STRANG: But if you arrived at about 2, or 2:05, 2:06, then that may have been before anyone started keeping a log?

MR. STRANG: Under those circumstances, the fact that you didn't sign in, would not look strange or odd?

MR. STRANG: Sometime shortly after you arrived at the Avery property, uh, you did go down to the southeast corner of that property?

MR. STRANG: We've all seen the picture until we -- we're blue in the face, and you -- but do you need it to help you?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And there was a pond there and -- lying in front of you?

MR. STRANG: Sure. And a car crusher off to the left somewhere?

MR. STRANG: And did you go up onto the ridge behind the depression, uh, to get closer to the Toyota?

MR. STRANG: How far -- how close to the Toyota did you go?

MR. STRANG: And your testimony is that you approached no closer than that parking area sort of to the -- to the right of the, uh -- of the car crusher?

MR. STRANG: It was, uh, getting dark by the time you went down to that area?

MR. STRANG: I can show you the transcript if you have any questions.

MR. STRANG: Okay. Uh, now, later that evening, or afternoon, you, um -- you volunteered to be one of the officers who searched Steven Avery's residence?

MR. STRANG: And, then, uh, as far as you know, Lieutenant Lenk, Sergeant Colborn also volunteered to be one of the searchers of Steven Avery's residence?

MR. STRANG: And, uh, Detective Remiker?

MR. STRANG: Now, that first search on November 5, uh, started about 7:30 in the evening?

MR. STRANG: When I say the first search, the first in which you were involved under a search warrant?

MR. STRANG: Lasted a little over two-and-a-half hours?

MR. STRANG: And, um, actually were four of you in that search party; isn't that right?

MR. STRANG: Lenk, Colborn, Remiker, and Mr. Tyson?

MR. STRANG: Tyson was from Calumet County of course?

MR. STRANG: The rest of you from Manitowoc County?

MR. STRANG: Now, you -- I guess as you described it here today, that was -- or -- and yesterday, was -- I don't know if these were your words exactly, but that was more of a general search? Not as thorough as a later search?

MR. STRANG: But with four of you? Not just three as there were on November 8?

MR. STRANG: And a full two-and-a-half hours? Not just about an hour on November 8?

MR. STRANG: A little longer than an hour?

MR. STRANG: All right. But you know that, uh, November 5 was two-and-a-half hours or maybe a shade over?

MR. STRANG: And, uh, the fact is, when you -- when you left on November 5, you did believe that you had seized everything of evidentiary value at that time?

MR. STRANG: Sergeant Tyson, uh, was there for the, um, purpose of collecting evidence on November 5?

MR. STRANG: He also kept an eye on all of the searchers?

MR. STRANG: You understood that, uh, a Calumet officer was to be with all searchers at all times on that property?

MR. STRANG: He stuck close to you as you searched on November 5?

MR. STRANG: Were you ever out of Sergeant Tyson's eyeshot? Eyesight?

MR. STRANG: No. He stuck pretty close to all three of you at all times, didn't he?

MR. STRANG: It would have been hard for you to do anything unobserved by Sergeant Tyson on November 5?

MR. STRANG: One of the things that, uh, he saw you doing was bagging up some evidence near the end, wasn't it?

MR. STRANG: So he didn't actually collect everything? He directed you to bag some of the evidence?

MR. STRANG: All right. Uh, if he described you as being the one who bagged the evidence, you would disagree with that?

MR. STRANG: Then, turning things, ultimately, over to Sergeant Tyson?

MR. STRANG: Now, I won't go through all of the searches in any great detail, but you're back in the house on November 6; correct?

MR. STRANG: Uh, you're in the -- Steven Avery's garage on November 6?

MR. STRANG: You described that here today, if I recall right, as being about an hour, maybe an hour-and-a-half, you were in Steven's garage?

MR. STRANG: Hour and 47 minutes sound more like it?

MR. STRANG: Uh, on the morning of the 6th, when you searched Mr. Avery's garage, you also seized everything that you saw that you thought had evidentiary value that day, didn't you?

MR. STRANG: The, uh, 7th, you're back in his house?

MR. STRANG: And, of course, the 8th. And, uh, this is the one you say was the thorough search?

MR. STRANG: The thorough search with three people, not four?

MR. STRANG: And, uh -- let's see. If you'll bear with me while I change disks here. Let's see if we can make this work good. That's a little catty-wampus, but I don't know that we've seen this before, but this is a -- a computer- generated image?

MR. STRANG: Okay. So not a photograph. It's a little bit of make-believe as the computer has it, but do you recognize the, uh -- the model or the -- the image here?

MR. STRANG: You, uh -- you told us, uh, when, uh, Mr. Kratz was asking you questions that this is a pretty small bedroom?

MR. STRANG: Other people have said that, too, and I'm wondering, can you give me a rough approximation of the -- of what small means? How big that bedroom is?

MR. STRANG: Okay. Um, and that -- that's a guess. I understand that. So, roughly 9 by 12. If that's a standard size or queen bed, one or the other, it fills up -- the bed fills up a good bit of the room?

MR. STRANG: Now, this November 8, uh, search, was at least your third time into Mr. Avery's bedroom? Searching it; right?

MR. STRANG: Yeah. Or is it just the second? There's certainly November 5 --

MR. STRANG: -- November 6 and November 7. Maybe the 6th you're just taking the guns?

MR. STRANG: One of those two days you --

MR. STRANG: So you go in the bedroom to take the guns?

MR. STRANG: Fair enough. Um, so you may not have been in the bedroom the day the guns were taken?

MR. STRANG: All right. In any event, you are back in the bedroom on the 8th?

MR. STRANG: Now, um, you guys are in there almost an hour? Something like that?

MR. STRANG: Okay. What you do know is that you left that bedroom, uh, to go to the living room at some point?

MR. STRANG: To get boxes or bags for evidence?

MR. STRANG: You see the key immediately after your return from the living room?

MR. STRANG: That's when you first see the key?

MR. STRANG: Another computer animation or computer image?

MR. STRANG: You see that little, uh -- little item up in the corner next to the bookcase there?

MR. STRANG: That's supposed to be the key?

MR. STRANG: That's about where you saw it?

MR. STRANG: Yeah. But when you saw it, there were a number of things sort of cluttering the room that aren't in the computer image?

MR. STRANG: Pair of slippers, and some sort of a -- looks like a -- a Fu Dog or little Ty lion sort of figure as a doorstop?

MR. STRANG: Something like that? Um, a notebook, some other miscellaneous junk in the -- the little bookcase there?

MR. STRANG: And a number of other things that just aren't in the computer pictures?

MR. STRANG: But the basic location of the key? That's correct?

MR. STRANG: Now, that key had a -- had a blue -- part of a blue (unintelligible) on it, didn't it?

MR. STRANG: Lanyard, l-a-n-y-a-r-d, uh, attached to the ring on the key?

MR. STRANG: And then, uh, at the end of that little lanyard strap was a, uh -- maybe the male end of a -- a black plastic clasp?

MR. STRANG: Neither do I. Maybe a male end, it could have been the female end, but it was one or the other; right?

MR. STRANG: The point is, there was some -- some sort of a black chunky half of a clasp at the end of the little lanyard?

MR. STRANG: And, um --

MR. STRANG: Do we have Exhibit No. 169 handy?

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) See if we can find a picture that you were shown on your direct examination. A photograph this time. On November 8 -- while we're waiting for the computer to open these -- these things, um, on November 8, did you have any reason to go into Mr. Avery's bathroom? You know, the bathroom, laundry room combination?

MR. STRANG: Blood drops? Something --

MR. STRANG: -- something like that? So you were involved in that as well?

MR. STRANG: Uh, were you in the bathroom?

MR. STRANG: Certainly, you know you were in there on November 5, the night you did the full, general search of the house?

MR. STRANG: The bathroom, uh, you recall as having Mr. Avery's toothbrush?

MR. STRANG: Or a toothbrush?

MR. STRANG: Razor? Those kinds of --

MR. STRANG: -- ordinary toiletry items?

MR. STRANG: All right. Now, we've got Exhibit 169 up on the, uh, screen. Let's see. That's not Exhibit 169. That's something else. Um, but this is -- this is the -- the key as you first observed it?

MR. STRANG: If I may take the laser pointer here.

MR. STRANG: Two-ten. Thank you, Mr. Kratz.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) So I've got Exhibit 210 up on the screen, and what we've got here is -- is -- is this -- what we're calling bookcase -- is that in the -- in the position it was when you walk in from the living room and see the key lying there?

MR. STRANG: Not quite flush against the wall, but close?

MR. STRANG: And, um, I don't know that we can get any better angle on that, but, um, if -- it looks like the cord running off the, uh, power pack for the phone or whatever that is?

MR. STRANG: Looks like the -- the cord is pressed up against the wall?

MR. STRANG: Okay. What you do -- what you do see is the -- the -- the key there, uh, looks like it's, I don't know, a few, two, three-something inches away from the wall?

MR. STRANG: Something like that; right?

MR. STRANG: And then maybe something like a similar distance off to the side of the bookcase?

MR. STRANG: Now -- now that we have that zoomed in, Exhibit 210, tell me, um, there's a key ring; is that -- is that right?

MR. STRANG: I mean, there was a key ring in other words?

MR. STRANG: All right. Um, and then that -- the -- the blue -- that -- that's blue fabric? The lanyard we were talking about?

MR. STRANG: And the -- I guess it's the -- the female end of the clasp?

MR. STRANG: All right. Now, uh, you see a house key on there?

MR. STRANG: Garage key?

MR. STRANG: Um, how about even one work key?

MR. STRANG: Swipe card for a gym?

MR. STRANG: Or athletic club?

MR. STRANG: Just the long Toyota key?

MR. STRANG: That's all that was on it when you saw it?

MR. STRANG: Mr. Buting's going to go back to work and see if he can find this Exhibit 169, which was the picture of the -- the back panel -- the veneer panel on the bookcase?

MR. STRANG: We don't have that. Um, Counsel, is -- is there a -- a regular photograph of Exhibit 169?

MR. STRANG: As opposed to just on the screen?

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) One sixty-nine?

MR. STRANG: You were shown that on direct?

MR. STRANG: Okay. See if we can do it this way. All right.

MR. STRANG: Mr. Buting, we need the gizmo. And then there's a second gizmo. There we go. Lights, camera, action. All right.

MR. STRANG: (By Attorney Strang) How's that? Pretty good? Can you see that?

MR. STRANG: All right. Now, this photograph, whenever it's taken, is taken after someone has pulled the bookcase away from the wall a little bit?

MR. STRANG: That is, in -- in Exhibit 169, the bookcase, is farther away from the wall than it was when you first saw the Toyota key?

MR. STRANG: And we can see that back veneer panel, or part of the board, whatever the panel is on the back?

MR. STRANG: All right. Did you -- did you touch this bookcase at some point?

MR. STRANG: Okay. And, I mean, was it collected as evidence?

MR. STRANG: Yes.

MR. STRANG: It wasn't?