3.Daniel Kucharski — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
434 linesMR. KRATZ: State would call Dan Kucharski to the stand, please.
COURT CLERK: Please raise your right hand. DANIEL KUCHARSKI, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Daniel J. Kucharski, K-u-c-h-a-r-s-k-i.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Kucharski, how are you employed?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm employed by the Calumet County Sheriff's Office.
MR. KRATZ: How long have you been on the -- a police officer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I've been with Calumet County for about four years, and two years before that with another agency.
MR. KRATZ: What are your current duties with Calumet County?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm a patrol deputy with the additional duties as an evidence tech and armor for the county.
MR. KRATZ: Were you asked, Deputy Kucharski, to assist in, uh, search and other investigative efforts regarding the death of Teresa Halbach?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to move, um, right ahead to your specific areas of, uh, involvement, specifically, to Sunday, the 6th of November. Were you asked to proceed to what's now known as the Avery salvage property?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I was.
MR. KRATZ: What were your duties on the 6th of, uh, November?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I was assigned a -- a search team that included, uh, Lieutenant Lenk, Sergeant Colborn, and Detective Remiker. We were given, uh, several areas on the property to search different times of the day.
MR. KRATZ: Speak up just a little bit. I'm sure we would appreciate it. Uh, do you have, and did you have, prior to the 6th of November, any specific training and experience as an evidence technician?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. I went through the two-week evidence technician school at Fox Valley Technical College.
MR. KRATZ: On the 6th of November, uh, were you asked, and did you, in fact, perform a search of the, uh, detached garage of Steven Avery?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, I did.
MR. KRATZ: Could you describe on that early stage, that is, just in the first full day of searching of that property, describe what it was that you were looking for in that garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Basically, myself and my team were sent to the, uh, garage for a general search. We were looking for
general, um, items that made a point as to a crime that had been committed. Um, nothing specific at that time were we looking for.
MR. KRATZ: And, in fact, on that, uh, early date, uh, did you have, um, a detailed or a solid understanding what it was you were looking for?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not at all. There was very little guidance. Um, as the facts would roll in, we would get, uh, more specific things. As the days went past, we'd get more specific things to search for and to collect. Uh, that was my first day of actual evidence collecting and searching, um, very general.
MR. KRATZ: All right. I've got some photographs that will assist. I show you what's marked as Exhibit 116. Tell the jury what this is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is a photo of the inside of the garage that, uh, we searched on that Sunday. So it would be towards the, um -- the front or overhead door looking back towards the, um, southeast corner of the garage.
MR. KRATZ: There are two large objects, two vehicles, if you will, that are depicted in this particular photograph. Could you describe those for the jury, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's a Suzuki Samurai automobile and a, um, Ski-doo
Mach 1, um, snowmobile.
MR. KRATZ: And is this photograph taken and does it accurately depict how Mr. Avery's garage looked, uh, on the 6th of November?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it does.
MR. KRATZ: The back of this photograph you see a, uh -- a Black Jack creeper?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: And I've zoomed in a little bit, uh, to that. You can see it on the -- the large screen. Um, on the 6th of November, did you have any indication that that Black Jack creeper may, in fact, have any evidentiary value?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No. Nothing stood out.
MR. KRATZ: Did you have a general impression of this garage when you first walked into it? Can you give the, uh, jury kind of a flavor of it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I would say it was a typical garage on the messy side. Um, the west side of the garage was piled up with types of, um, uh, machinery, junk, um, things like that, several feet deep on that west side.
Um, along the back of the garage, that would be the south side of the garage, was -- also had equipment and junk on it. Not quite as deep as that -- that west side.
Then on the east side of the garage,
into the garage, there's also a pile of junk. Um, the floor was a typical garage floor with, uh, stains on it, dirt.
MR. KRATZ: At some point was that snowmobile removed from the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. At one point, uh, towards the end of our searching, we wanted to see -- look underneath the snowmobile, so we removed it from the garage.
MR. KRATZ: All right. And, again, since this was a -- a relatively cursory search, did you believe that you or other law enforcement officers would have an opportunity to go back into this garage and re-search it if you need -- needed today?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. As -- as more information came in, more specific information came in, we would go back to places that we had -- had already searched looking for specific things.
MR. KRATZ: I'm showing you Exhibit No. 117 now. It's on the large screen. Is this a photograph after the snowmobile's been removed?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Could you, uh, describe some -- And I think you have a laser pointer up there. Describe some, um, landmarks or specific, uh, areas that you observed on the 6th of November?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, after we, um, removed the snowmobile, we could see more clearly, um, the -- a crack running, uh -- be north and south, and one east and west. Uh, these are the scratches made by the, uh, snowmobile pulling in and out of the, uh, um, um, garage. There were scratches already on the floor before we pulled it out, because they obviously had to get it in there somehow. Um, that's what we saw when we pulled the snowmobile out.
MR. KRATZ: All right. There's a riding, uh, lawnmower? Looks like a John Deere lawnmower to the right; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Towards the back here in this area. Riding lawnmower.
MR. KRATZ: Large red tool chest? Show us that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Stand-up tool chest in the center area here towards the back wall.
MR. KRATZ: Next to that tool chest, on the 6th, I can see a, uh -- a green air compressor. Do you see that in the photograph?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's dark, but it's right here, the green air compressor on the floor next to the tool chest.
MR. KRATZ: Now, for the jury's benefit, were, um, many or, in fact, any of those items removed? And did you
search behind or under them? Or was it that
thorough of a search on the 6th?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It was a general search. We -- You know, on the most detailed search, we would have pulled everything out of the garage. We, obviously, didn't do that. Um, the only thing we pulled out was the -- the sled, um, because we couldn't see underneath it, uh, readily, and it was out in the open anyways. We didn't take out any of the things along the back wall or the side walls.
MR. KRATZ: All right. The floor of this, uh, garage you had described briefly, but I'm going to show you Exhibit No. 118. Tell us what we're looking at here, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's little bit closer view of the, uh, floor after the snowmobile had been pulled out.
MR. KRATZ: During your search of the garage, did you have occasion to, uh, find any, um, what are referred to as shell casings?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. We found, located and collected several .22 caliber long rifle shell casings.
MR. KRATZ: I'm showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 119. Tell the jury what we're looking at here, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is one of the shell casings that we found in place on the floor of the garage on the date we
searched
MR. KRATZ: All right. Did you take a photograph of more than one shell casing?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We photographed more than one shell casing. We took as many photographs of the shell casings that we could. Some were behind things that we couldn't readily photograph. We collected those and, uh, put them altogether into a box.
MR. KRATZ: If you remember, Deputy Kucharski, on the 6th of November, uh, can you remember, and can you tell the jury, how many shell casings were recovered from that garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: There were either 10 or 11 shell casings recovered.
MR. KRATZ: In fact, now I'm going to show you Exhibit No. 120, I believe. Tell us what we're looking at here, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the pill box that I put the, um, shell casings in, photographed, um, after it had been entered into evidence.
MR. KRATZ: And as you sit here, are you able to tell the jury, and can you count, how many shell casings are in that pill box?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I count 10 -- uh, I count 11 in this photograph.
MR. KRATZ: All right. And, again, those were recovered from inside the garage on the-garage floor; is that
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: What exhibit, uh, was that that you were just handed?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: (No verbal response.)
COURT CLERK: One twenty-eight.
MR. KRATZ: One twenty-eight?
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz) I'm sorry. We've handed you what's been marked as, uh, Exhibit 128. Tell us what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It appears to be the -- the box with the .22 shell casings.
MR. KRATZ: All right. After you recovered those shell casings, do you know what happened to them?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: After I sealed them in the package and put them into the, uh, paper bag and enter those into evidence at the Calumet County Sheriff's Department, and I left it in the care and custody of the, uh, evidence custodian.
MR. KRATZ: Now, you didn't perform any analysis on those shell casings? In other words, you aren't qualified to compare, uh, shell casings to specific firearms, are you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct. I just collected them. I didn't do any analysis on them.
MR. KRATZ: Is it fair to say that that is a -- a discipline or a science that is left to somebody with greater expertise than you have?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Kucharski, after the, uh, garage was searched in relatively general fashion, do you recall, um, what other searches were performed on the 6th of November?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Only the searches that my team did. Um, directly after we finished up with the, uh, search of the garage, I was called over to a area behind the, uh, Janda residence to take some burn barrels, um, that were waiting to be loaded up and taken -- entered into evidence.
Um, after that, I was given the assignment --
MR. KRATZ: Let me just stop you there. I'm going to show you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 121. Tell us what we're looking at here, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Those are the burn barrels that I tagged, and they were lowered onto a trailer that you can see the ramp on there, and they were taken.
MR. KRATZ: After the search of the, um, burn barrels or -- excuse me -- the recovery of, uh, the Janda and, uh -- That's Mr. Dassey's residence as well? Is that your understanding?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I -- I don't know.
MR. KRATZ: Okay. You knew that it was Barb Janda's --
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: -- trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's how it was referred to.
MR. KRATZ: After the recovery of those burn barrels, um, what were you asked to do?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We were sent to the, uh, Janda residence to, um, search it.
MR. KRATZ: And did you, in fact, search that residence?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, we did. Uh, again, this was a general search. Um, not looking for anything in specific.
MR. KRATZ: During the search of, uh, the Janda trailer, did you have occasion to observe and recover a, um -- a phone message that was found on, um, the answering machine of the Janda residence?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. One of the first things that we did when we entered the residence is, uh, Detective Remiker played the phone message while we were all standing around. Uh, he recorded it. Um, and then we commenced searching the rest of the, uh, residence.
MR. KRATZ: Direct your attention to the photos in front of you. Exhibit No. 123, and now being shown on the large screen for the jurors, what are we looking
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is a photo of the phone and answering machine that was in the, uh, Janda residence.
MR. KRATZ: Did -- And you indicated that you had occasion to listen to, uh, at least one of those phone messages; is that correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Did an individual on that phone message identify herself?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. We listened to the message that, uh, the female caller, uh, identified herself as Teresa.
MR. KRATZ: At this time, Judge, assuming this works, I will ask the Court for permission to play that particular phone message. We do have the, uh, phone message, uh, reduced to a -- an audio CD as well that I will then ask to have marked, and then I'll place into evidence at that time.
THE COURT: Any objection, Counsel?
MR. FREMGEN: No, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.
(Wherein attempt is made to play phone message.)
MR. KRATZ: We should try this maybe one more time. Apologize. Do it the old fashioned way, Judge. See how this works. Let's try it again.
THE COURT: Counsel, do you have other questions to ask of Mr. Kuchar -- Kucharski? Maybe you'll want to --
MR. KRATZ: Thank you, Judge. We will --
THE COURT: -- give another shot at this later on.
MR. KRATZ: We will come back to this a little bit later.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz) Investigator Kucharski -- or, excuse me -- Deputy Kucharski, after the, um, phone call was, um, recovered from you, uh, what were your other search efforts that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: After we finished with the, uh, Janda house, we were also assigned to, uh, search, um, the shop buildings, um, and then, ultimately, assigned to search the, um, pickup truck that was parked outside of Steven Avery's garage.
MR. KRATZ: Deputy Kucharski, did you have occasion to, um, recover any firearms that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. We were also sent to the, uh, Steven Avery trailer to specifically pick up, um, firearms that were in the trailer, a, uh, vacuum cleaner that was in the trailer, and bedding from a spare bedroom that was in the trailer.
MR. KRATZ: And could you tell the jury, please, uh, what firearm, if any -- or firearms, if any, were recovered from Mr. Avery's trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Inside of, uh, Steven Avery's bedroom, we found, above the bed in a, um, gun rack, two rifles. One was a Connecticut Valley Arms Hawkin-type .50 caliber muzzleloader. Um, the other was a .22 caliber Glenfield Model 60 semi-automatic rifle.
MR. KRATZ: I'm showing you a, uh, photo that has already been received, uh, into evidence in this case as Exhibit No. 86. Do you recognize that photograph?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. It's a photo of the rifle. The .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle.
MR. KRATZ: We're going to actually have marked, uh, Deputy Kucharski, and show you -- It's Exhibit -- I'm showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 129. Tell the jury what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is the rifle that, uh, I collected out of Steven Avery's bedroom. The .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle.
MR. KRATZ: Now, are you familiar with a firearm -- Specifically, do you have some working familiarity with this particular firearm?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I am the armor for the, uh, county, so I have been to several schools, uh, trained in maintenance and identification of weapons. Yes, I know how this rifle works.
MR. KRATZ: All right. When you describe a rifle as a semi-automatic rifle, and, specifically, Exhibit No. 129, can you tell us what that means, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: A semi-automatic is referring to the action of the rifle. This rifle is -- has a tubular magazine. Below the magazine with the, uh -- the -- the ammunition for it. After it's loaded, every time you pull the trigger, one round will be fired. The next round will be automatically cycled into the chamber, and then with every successing pull of the trigger you get one round.
MR. KRATZ: I don't know if you know this answer, uh, Deputy Kucharski, but does this particular weapon, this .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle, uh, contain several, um, bullets within its, what's called, magazine?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Inside the magazine to this particular model, depending on when it was made, is somewhere between 14 and 17 rounds you can put in the tubular magazine.
MR. KRATZ: All right. So before stopping to reload, an individual could shoot, uh, 14 to 17 rounds of ammunition through it? Is that what your testimony is?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: Where was that, uh, rifle seized from, specifically?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This was in Steven Avery's bedroom inside the trailer on the wall in a gun rack above his bed.
MR. KRATZ: Could you -- Investigator Wiegert, thank you.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz) Deputy Kucharski, upon a, um, search of Mr. Avery's residence, do you have occasion to, uh, seize or remove any cleaning, uh, equipment?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the 6th, we were specifically sent in to, um, take a vacuum, and, then, on the 8th, when we went back to do a thorough search of the residence, we, um, collected as evidence a Bissell carpet cleaner.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to show you a photograph, Exhibit No. 124. It's on the large screen. Can you tell us what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is the Bissell carpet cleaner that we, um, took into evidence on the 8th.
MR. KRATZ: Do you remember where that was received from?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I think it was in the hallway, um, living room portion
MR. KRATZ: Investigator Wiegert is actually going to show you that item.
MR. KRATZ: Roberta, what number is that?
COURT CLERK: Exhibit 130.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz) I'm showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 130. Tell the jury what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is the Bissell carpet cleaner that, uh, we took from the residence on the 8th.
MR. KRATZ: All right. Thank you. If I can just go back. Uh, I believe it was on the 6th you talked about, a -- maybe it was the 7th -- a searching an office area or another building within the, uh, Avery compound; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the 6th and the 7th, um -- On the 6th was more -- more of a general search of the office buildings, on the, uh, property there. On the 7th, I also went into some of the buildings to specifically take some items.
MR. KRATZ: I'm going to show you Exhibit No. 122. It's a photograph. Can you tell us what we're looking at, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: This is a photograph of -- on the inside of one of the office buildings. That's kind ef like a, uh customer counter, I believe. And that's, uh, with a endangered/missing poster for Teresa Halbach.
MR. KRATZ: Directing your attention, now, to the 8th of November, were you asked to perform a more thorough search of the residence of Steven Avery?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the 8th, um, myself, Lieutenant Lenk, and Sergeant Colborn were sent back to the Steven Avery residence to, uh, specifically take several items, and then complete a thorough search of the residence.
MR. KRATZ: On the 8th, uh, did you have occasion to find any ammunition? Specifically, any .22 caliber long rifle ammunition from the bedroom of Steven Avery?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, we did. We located and collected .22 caliber long rifle ammunition from the bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: An evidence photograph of that was taken. I'm going to direct your attention to Exhibit 125. Could you tell us what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is a photo of the .22 caliber ammunition that was taken from the bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: Also, on the 8th, did you have occasion to find and recover, uh, a key?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. On the 8th we recovered a Toyota key in the bedroom of Steven Avery.
MR. KRATZ: I show you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 127. Excuse me, 126. Could you tell us what Exhibit No. 126 is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It's a photograph that I took of the key as it was found in the bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: Who collected this key?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I did.
MR. KRATZ: And how was it collected, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I collected the key by taking new gloves out of a package that I brought into the residence to do the searching with. Put the key into a new paper bag, sealed the paper bag, and it was in my possession until it left with Special Agent Joy to the Crime Lab.
MR. KRATZ: A photograph of that key was, uh, later taken by, um, evidence technicians at the Sheriff's Department. I'm showing you Exhibit No. 127. Can you tell us what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's another photograph of the key that we located and took into evidence out of Steven's Avery's, uh, bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: Just so the jury's clear, this is what's commonly referred to as a -- an evidence photo? That is, after it's been collected; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. KRATZ: And the last thing we're going to show you, Exhibit No. 131, and tell the jury what that is, please?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That is the key that we found in the -- Steven Avery's bedroom.
MR. KRATZ: Now, on the end of the key is a blue, um, what's called a key fob. Something that would be attached or go into a -- a lanyard. Is that your understanding?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. A female end of the key fob is attached to the key.
MR. KRATZ: As depicted, that is, the key it, itself, with the fob, um, and the key chain, is that how it was recovered? And does it look the same or similar, uh, as Mr. Wiegert is holding it, as it did when you recovered it on the 8th of November from Mr. Avery's bedroom?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it looks the same.
MR. KRATZ: With, uh, my reservation, Judge, for, uh, replaying that exhibit, once a -- and probably after lunch when the, uh, technical, uh, problems are resolved -- and moving the admission of Exhibits 116 through 131, I have no further questions of this witness. thank you,
THE COURT: Any objections to the exhibits, Counsel?
MR. FREMGEN: One thirty-one?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. KRATZ: One thirty-one.
MR. FREMGEN: One thirty-one was --
MR. KRATZ: The key, itself.
THE COURT: The actual key.
MR. FREMGEN: No. That's fine. That's fine, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. They're received. You may cross.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY EDELSTEIN:
MR. EDELSTEIN: Deputy, good morning.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Good morning.
MR. EDELSTEIN: I'm sorry. Is that better?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. All right. So you -- you work for Cal County? You've been over there four years; right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And where were you, specifically, before that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Oconto Police Department.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Do you have a, uh, four-year degree in Police Science?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I have a two-year degree in Police Science.
MR. EDELSTEIN: From?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Um, Green Bay. From, uh, uh, Northeast Wisconsin Technical College.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Other than the training you described, uh, the two-week training at Fox Valley, do you have any other formal training, uh, through educational entities for purposes of, uh, being qualified on evidence collection?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, I noticed in response to Mr. Kratz, when you were questioned about firearms collected, you were very quick to state that you took that .22 out of Steven Avery's trailer; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I took the .22 out of the trailer, yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. I think the question he asked you, though, with your involvement, um, was a little broader than that. And the truth of the matter is you picked up a lot of firearms from the Avery property; didn't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Two firearms out of the Steven Avery trailer, and many other firearms off the property.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So the two from the trailer certainly weren't the only firearms that were picked up?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: As a matter of fact, there was at least one other -22; right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Any particular reason you can think of, when Mr. Kratz asked you about firearms you picked up, you didn't mention the others?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We were speaking about the Steven Avery trailer. I don't think we went into the searches, uh, on the other pieces of property and weapons.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Deputy, I may have misunderstood Mr. Kratz's question, but I understood him to ask you about any firearms. But now that you've cleared that up, you acknowledge that there -- there were other firearms and there was at least one other
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. The .22 Glenfield, you indicated that it holds between 14 and 17 rounds; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I believe so, yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, upon what do you believe that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Um, records, um, from the Marlin Company. They changed the, uh, configuration of the magazine at a certain period during the manufacture. Um, the only real way to tell exactly how many it holds is to
actually load it. I don't know if it's been modified or anything like that.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't -- Well, you -- you looked at it I assume?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You're fairly adept with firearms?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I didn't examine it. I didn't take it apart at all.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, certainly by way of appearance, there wasn't anything obvious that would indicate that the magazine had been modified, was there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Nothing overly, no.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So your 14 to 17, this a guesstimate?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You never actually checked it?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. In order to load that particular firearm, the individual cartridges, the shells, themselves, have to be individually handled; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. And, basically, they slide down the tube and then it's fed via a spring?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Well, there is a -- there is a speed loading device that they have on the market you can put into another device, and then that fits into the tube, and then they all drop in there, so I guess, individually, it depends if you had that extra device or not.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, not to quibble with you, Deputy, but in order to load the speed loader, you're going to still have to handle each one of them separately, aren't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: To put them into the speed loader, yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So whether you load the thing directly, without the benefit of a speed loader, or you utilize a speed loader, someone is going to have to handle each and every shell that ultimately ends up in the tubular magazine of the rifle?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. Now, you recovered, I believe you said, uh, 11 shell casings from the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: In various states of condition? Is that a fair statement?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Did you personally pick each and every one of them up?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So you can't tell us how they were handled prior to you getting your hands on them, so to speak?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Everyone was wearing gloves as we were searching.
Um, that's about the only thing that I could tell you about how they were handled.
MR. EDELSTEIN: But you didn't sit there and observe each and every casing being picked up?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. So you don't know if they were picked up using any type of device, or they were picked up using, um, uh, hands or gloved hands, or anything like that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Prior to the shell casings being removed from the garage -- I assume you were in the garage, and, essentially, everybody said, well, gee, I found one, they bring them over to you. Is that what happened?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I found one, we'd, um, attempt to photograph it if it was out in the open. Circle it. Put a tent there. Um, after, um, the point reached there where we didn't find any more, okay, collect them all up.
MR. EDELSTEIN: At some point did you remove each and every item from the garage?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you or anyone else document the precise location within the garage of each of the shell casings you did leave the garage with?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Only the photographs.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. So there were no measurements, for example, that a shell casing was "X" distance from the rear wall, or so many feet from another wall?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Deputy, you testified about, uh, finding what's depicted in the photograph on display -- and for the record it's the -- described as the CCI, uh, -228; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: When you -- Are you the individual who located that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Um, that was located in -- in Steven Avery's bedroom. Um, Sergeant Colborn was searching that area of the, uh, bedroom. That would be the desk area.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So I guess the answer to my question is, no, you were not the one who actually located it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You took the picture?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you become, uh, the custodian of that box?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And that was on which day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The 8th.
MR. EDELSTEIN: of November?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: When it was -- Who -- Who gave it to you? Who gave you the box?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know.
MR. EDELSTEIN: When it was given to you, was the top open or closed?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't remember -- If it was given to me, if it was pointed out to me and I picked it up, I don't remember if the box was open or closed.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you ever -- The -- the top of that will slide in order to open; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you at anytime open it or close it to your memory?
MR. EDELSTEIN: When you received it, how did -- if at all -- did you package it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: We took the ammunition out of that, um, bedroom and placed it all into one bag. A grocery bag.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Are you telling us that you removed each and every cartridge from that particular container and put it in a grocery sack?
MR. EDELSTEIN: You left the thing in one piece with them in place; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And then put it in the sack?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. So you didn't handle, or to your knowledge nobody else handled, the individual shells?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: What about the outside? How was the outside of that preserved for purposes of, um, testing or trying to lift any fingerprints off that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: It wasn't preserved for fingerprint evidence.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You're a trained evidence technician, are you not?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You've already seized a firearm, including a .22, from that residence; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Don't you think it would be important to try to determine who, if anybody, has handled that particular box?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not at the time.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Didn't Agent Fassbender specifically tell you, go back into Steven Avery's trailer and get that -22?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Among other things, yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, now, as an officer, particularly one who's trained in evidence collection, can you explain to me why you did not think it was critical, in light of the fact that Fassbender instructed you, specifically, to go get that .22 rifle, and you've come across a box of .22s, not to preserve it in such a fashion as would allow for fingerprint processing?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Out of all the items that, uh, myself and my team collected, probably into the hundreds of items, I only remember one item that we preserved for fingerprint evidence.
MR. EDELSTEIN: That doesn't really answer my question. I didn't ask you how many items you picked up. I just want to know why you didn't think it was important, particularly in light of the fact that the lead investigator, Fassbender, tells you to go get the .22 rifle, and you come across .22 shells in a plastic case, that you didn't think it was important to preserve it in a fashion which would allow the processing for fingerprints?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't have an answer.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you not think that was important to be
preserved in such a fashion as to allow the lifting of prints?
MR. KRATZ: Objection. Both argumentative and irrelevant. If Mr. Edelstein is saying somebody other than Steven Avery handled this, it becomes relevant. Otherwise, it's not relevant, Judge.
THE COURT: I agree. Move on, Mr. Edelstein. And, for the record, we're talking here, I believe, about Exhibit 125.
MR. EDELSTEIN: (By Attorney Edelstein) You didn't examine -- Did you examine any of the individual cartridges in there to determine what type of bullet was contained in the box?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you, or any member of your search team, while you were in the garage, or anytime after you collected the 11 shell casings, um, perform any swabbing on there so as to allow for the processing of DNA evidence?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the shell casings?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you know if that was ever done by anybody involved in the investigation?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't know.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you, or any member of your search team assigned to perform the search in the garage, following the receipt of the shell casings, do anything in an attempt to, um, preserve them in such a fashion as would allow the lifting of fingerprints?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, you were there first in the garage on the 6th; is that right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't find any bullets in any cracks on that day?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You didn't find any on the 8th; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: That's correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: What about underneath the compressor? Did you find any bullets or bullet fragments on the 6th or the 8th?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. EDELSTEIN: You first testified that when you went in, when you -- You characterize it as a general search and that you weren't looking for anything specific?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: What are you searching for un -- under what you describe as a general search?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Anything that stood out. Um, any type of evidence that stood out.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Prior to going in there on the 6th, were you advised by Fassbender or anyone else to look for any spec -- particular items?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not that I recall, no.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Before you went in there with the search team, uh, were you briefed by the agent in charge at the command center?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No. I was getting most of my orders from, uh, Lieutenant Bowe or Lieutenant Sippel, and they were getting it from the, uh, investigators in charge or someone else.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So before you went in on the 6th, did you even go down there? To the command center?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes. I would check in at the command center, um, before each assignment to get the -- or after each assignment and at the beginning of each day to get the next assignment.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Now, the bedding that you picked up that you testified about on direct, that was from Steve Avery's trailer; correct?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Specifically, what did the bedding consist of? Let -- Let me do it this way.: Was there a pillowcase?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I don't remember.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Was there a, um, quilt or any sort of blanket you took?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I took several sets of bedding off of the property and I don't remember exactly what was in each set.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Do you recall, specifically, what you took off of the bed at the time you were there?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No. That's what I'm referring to.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, did all the bedding that you took come off of the bed? Or did it come from -- for example, from a closet or some sort of storage container?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: All of the bedding that I took came off of a bed.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Are you aware of any other bedding that was removed that you did not take or that somebody else took?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I'm not aware of.
MR. EDELSTEIN: As to any of the bedding that you may have taken -- Well, first of all, let's establish the date. What date did you do that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I took bedding on the 6th of November. I took bedding on the 8th of November.
MR. EDELSTEIN: From the same bed?
MR. EDELSTEIN: How many beds were in the trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Two.
MR. EDELSTEIN: On the 6th, which bed did you take it from?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: On the 6th, I took the bedding from the spare bedroom in Steven Avery's trailer.
MR. EDELSTEIN: I take it, then, on the 8th, you took it from the bed in the -- what's been described as Steve's bedroom?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And you don't have a specific recollection of the individual items on either date?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Just generally described as bedding?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Correct.
MR. EDELSTEIN: On the 8th, you took the Bissell carpet cleaner?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: On the 6th, you took the vacuum cleaner?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you take the vacuum, itself, or did you just take the bag?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The vacuum, itself.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And you understood that to be important because of the potential for obtaining evidentiary clues? For example, hair?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No. At that time I was instructed to pick it up.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you have an -- Again, you're try -- During the course of your training as an evidence tech, in addition to the techniques that you're taught about preserving the integrity of the object, I assume you learn a little something about why the object might have some relevancy in a criminal investigation? Is that a fair statement?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And you're not going to argue with me if I say taking the vacuum cleaner would be important, because sometimes fiber evidence is contained in those bags? You know that, don't you?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Why it was taken you'd have to ask the person that instructed me to take it.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So you have no opinion as to why it would be important to take it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: My opinion would be, yes, probably for some type of, uh, um, trace evidence.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Okay. Did you -- Were you instructed to remove any carpeting from Steve Avery's trailer?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I wasn't.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you remove any?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I wasn't -- didn't.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you remove any carpet from any of the -- the other locations you visited during the course of your participation in the investigation?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Not that I remember.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, that's something you would remember, isn't that? If you cut out a piece of carpet and turned it over to somebody for evidentiary purposes, isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I didn't cut out any carpet.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Well, you -- you just said you didn't remember. But now you remember that you didn't; right?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I remember I didn't cut out any carpet. Um, if I picked up carpet, um, slim possibility, but I -- I don't remember it.
MR. EDELSTEIN: As to the items you did collect, did you regularly turn them over to the same individual from the lab?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: I never turned over any items to any lab personnel.
MR. EDELSTEIN: Did you turn over the items you did collect to the same individual?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: And who was that?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Deputy Hawkins.
MR. EDELSTEIN: So everything you picked up, from bedding, the shell casings, carpet stuff, the cleaner stuff, the bullets, all of that went over to Hawkins?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes.
MR. EDELSTEIN: All right. That's all. Thank you.
THE COURT: Any redirect, Counsel?
MR. KRATZ: Just, uh, one question.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Mr. Edelstein asked you what you knew, and who told you, or why you might have, uh, searched the garage. On the 6th, the day that you did search the garage, the 6th of November, were you told that anybody had yet made any statements about Teresa Halbach being shot in that garage?
MR. EDELSTEIN: And I object. And call for a hearsay answer.
THE COURT: I think it's a fair question. Overruled.
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: No, I did not.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz) If you would have been told that Brendan Dassey, or Steven Avery, or somebody else would have made a statement that Teresa Halbach would have been shot in that garage, would you have done a different kind of search on the 6th?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Absolutely. Uh, when information like that comes in, that helps to direct your search.
MR. KRATZ: With the indulgence of the Court, Judge, I'm going to try this again. If it doesn't work, we'll have to wait until after lunch. I think Mr. Fremgen's helped me, Judge.
MR. FREMGEN: Can you say that for the record?
(Wherein phone message is played.)
MR. FREMGEN: "Hello. This is Teresa with AutoTrader Magazine. I'm the photographer, and just giving you a call to let you know that I could come out there today, um, in the afternoon. It would -- will probably be around two o'clock or even a little later. But, um, if you could please give me a call back and let me know if that will work for you, because I don't have your address or anything, so I can't stop by without getting the -- a call back from you. And my cell phone is 737-4731. Again, it's Teresa, 920-737-4731. Thank you."
MR. KRATZ: Once again, Judge, we will have that marked as an exhibit. Uh, I will offer that, uh, to the Court.
MR. KRATZ: (By Attorney Kratz) My last question, is that, in fact, uh, Deputy Kucharski, the message that you heard from the Janda residence when you searched it on the 6th of November?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it is.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I've got, Judge. Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Any cross related to that?
MR. EDELSTEIN: Uh, just very briefly, Your Honor. Uh, this is not, necessarily, as to this last item that Mr. Kratz just dealt with, but, uh, in response to his other question.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY EDELSTEIN:
MR. EDELSTEIN: Officer, if you did not know that Brendan Dassidly -- Dassey had allegedly given information that Ms. Halbach had been shot in that garage, can you explain to me why you took the .22 shells from the trailer, as well as the .22 rifle?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: The .22 rifle was taken from the trailer on instructions from supervisor. The ammunition was taken from the trailer on a different date from instructions by a supervisor.
MR. EDELSTEIN: That's all.
MR. KRATZ: One other question.
RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
MR. KRATZ: Steven Avery was a convicted felon at the time and couldn't possess a weapon. That's true; isn't it?
DANIEL KUCHARSKI: Yes, it is.
MR. KRATZ: And it's another reason to take the gun -- to take the weapon that --
MR. EDELSTEIN: Your Honor, I object. It's leading. Suggestive.
THE COURT: It's leading. Suggestive.
MR. EDELSTEIN: It's irrelevant.
THE COURT: It's -- it's --
MR. KRATZ: It's not irrelevant at all, Judge.
THE COURT: I -- Counsel?
MR. KRATZ: He said it was irrelevant, Judge. It was cer -- certainly not.
THE COURT: I -- It was leading and suggestive. It was not irrelevant.
MR. KRATZ: That's all I have. Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: All right. You may step down. We will adjourn for the lunch hour. Um, Mr. Kratz,
you have more witnesses today? What time do you expect your first witness to be here for this afternoon?
MR. KRATZ: We can certainly begin, uh, anytime after 1:00 if the Court wants to.
THE COURT: How about 1:00?
MR. KRATZ: That sounds perfect.
THE COURT: All right. We'll be back, then, at 1:00. Again, I remind you, ladies and gentlemen, not to speak about this case or anything connected with it.
(Recess had at 11:54 a.m.)
(Reconvened at 1:01 p.m.)
THE COURT: Good afternoon. I think we're ready to proceed. Mr. Kratz.
MR. FALLON: Good afternoon. Um, I'll be handling this afternoon's witnesses. State will commence, uh, testimony this afternoon with, uh, Dr. John Ertl.
THE COURT: All right.